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sirdaviddragonslayer
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31# |
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(Date Posted:08/28/2007 17:21:25)
Reply to : Dot_Is_Cute
Ah. I was not referring to the Constitution as though it were a document that would convince you to accept a particular philosophical viewpoint. I referred to it as the law for the USA, to show you that, your objection to firearms, while understandable, is not sufficient to overrule the law of our country. In your country, different laws prevail, although I do believe that owning and using arms is an unalienable right for everyone everywher
Well here's an interesting thing. To me, the law is irrelevant when you are talking about whether or not something is moral.
SDD: agreed.
The law can be wrong. The constitution could be wrong. They need changing if so.
SDD: agreed.
I don't understand why you would say something like "your objection to firearms is not sufficient to overrule the law of our country". That seems to me to be a separate issue to whether or not it is "right".
SDD: agreed with your second sentence. But, I think the Second Amendment is correct, so I stand by it. If it were wrong, I would say, change it.
I wonder if you consider it moral to abide by the law. Is that why you mention it?
SDD: it is moral to abide by the law unless the law is immoral or wrong in some way.
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sirdaviddragonslayer
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32# |
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(Date Posted:08/28/2007 17:25:08)
Reply to : Phatchick
As a christian, I honestly feel owning a handgun is wrong. IMO, handguns have only one purpose, to injure and kill other human beings and we are called to treat others with respect and kindness, not cause harm.I also feel this is a very much YMMV issue. I have no problem with anyone wanting to own a gun who is 1) legally able to do so and 2) willing to take the responsiblity of gun ownership seriously.
Is wrong based on what?
Is it wrong to kill or injure someone to protect yourself or someone you love, such as your children?
If you allow someone to harm your children, how is that showing love and respect to your children?
When you have to choose one or the other--your children, or the person trying to harm them--how do you decide who you will harm (either by action or inaction)?
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The Cuteness
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33# |
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(Date Posted:08/28/2007 22:15:45)
Reply to : sirdaviddragonslayer
but it's really not that much different from a baseball bat, in that it is a deadly weapon, just more effective.
Exactly. That is the difference.
SDD: agreed...
SDD: agreed....
SDD: agreed with your second sentence. But, I think the Second Amendment is correct, so I stand by it. If it were wrong, I would say, change it.
I'm glad you agree that your point was irrelevant. I'm also glad you would want to change the second amendment if you thought it was wrong.
SDD: it is moral to abide by the law unless the law is immoral or wrong in some way.
Well that's good too.
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Marquis de Sade (Quills): Are your convictions so fragile they cannot stand in opposition to mine? Is your god so flimsy, so weak? For shame.
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ted5870
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(Date Posted:08/30/2007 20:44:14)
I'm pro-gun for many reasons. When the U.S. REALLY starts going down the tubes, an armed populace will give our elected officials/tyrants a reason to shake in their boots when out among "the people." We gotta hold those fuckers accountable...if not by ballot, then by blood and violence and revolution, the way our Founding Fathers intended. Bring on the Revolution, so I say.
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sirdaviddragonslayer
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35# |
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(Date Posted:08/31/2007 01:44:46)
Reply to : Dot_Is_Cute
Exactly. That is the difference.SDD: agreed...SDD: agreed....SDD: agreed with your second sentence. But, I think the Second Amendment is correct, so I stand by it. If it were wrong, I would say, change it.I'm glad you agree that your point was irrelevant. I'm also glad you would want to change the second amendment if you thought it was wrong.SDD: it is moral to abide by the law unless the law is immoral or wrong in some way.
Well, I don't think my point was irrelevant, because my unstated premise was that the Second Amendment is good.
An important point to remember is that, you cannot violate someone's rights that are codified in law, even if those rights are wrong (sounds funny, eh?), unless you change the law first.
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The Cuteness
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36# |
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(Date Posted:08/31/2007 02:03:51)
Reply to : sirdaviddragonslayer
An important point to remember is that, you cannot violate someone's rights that are codified in law, even if those rights are wrong (sounds funny, eh?), unless you change the law first.
sirdavid - I mean no offense - but that's not an important point to remember at all. It's completely irrelevant when you are talking about whether or not something is moral. You yourself agreed what is legal and what is moral is separate.
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Marquis de Sade (Quills): Are your convictions so fragile they cannot stand in opposition to mine? Is your god so flimsy, so weak? For shame.
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sirdaviddragonslayer
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37# |
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(Date Posted:08/31/2007 03:25:55)
Reply to : Dot_Is_Cute
sirdavid - I mean no offense - but that's not an important point to remember at all. It's completely irrelevant when you are talking about whether or not something is moral. You yourself agreed what is legal and what is moral is separate.
In discussing whether or not a law is moral, I agree: it doesn't matter if it is a law or not. But, in the process of denying a right, or what is perceived as a right, you can't just start denying it if the right is protected by law. First you must change the law, even if the right is wrong.
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Phatchick
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(Date Posted:08/31/2007 04:04:15)
Reply to : sirdaviddragonslayer
Is it wrong to kill or injure someone to protect yourself or someone you love,
IMO, if you own a handgun, you need to accept the fact that guns can and do kill. If you point a gun at someone, you have to be ready to kill that person, something I don't feel I am capaple of. This means that my owning a gun would just put me and my husband (no kids, just a very spoiled cat) in more danger than if we didn't have one. Again, I have no issues with other people owning guns but it isn't the right decision for me.
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Phatchick
"I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it."
Garrison Keillor
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sirdaviddragonslayer
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39# |
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(Date Posted:08/31/2007 04:15:53)
Reply to : Phatchick
IMO, if you own a handgun, you need to accept the fact that guns can and do kill. If you point a gun at someone, you have to be ready to kill that person, something I don't feel I am capaple of. This means that my owning a gun would just put me and my husband (no kids, just a very spoiled cat) in more danger than if we didn't have one. Again, I have no issues with other people owning guns but it isn't the right decision for me.
Well, you certainly do need to be able to handle the fact that you might seriously injure or kill someone if you shoot them, and you shouldn't point a gun at someone if you are not completely ready to shoot them. Like you said, they might sense your feelings, and use your own weapon against you. If your husband feels the same way, then you are probably correct in not having a gun in your house.
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Jezebel Rising
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40# |
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(Date Posted:08/31/2007 11:11:55)
Those who claim that owning assault weopans and using them on whomever they please is a divine mandate is oblivious of the havoc that they wreak on the lives of so many innocent people.
My current assistant manager went to his brother's house for a family gathering. An argument ensued, and before the night was over, he was being rushed to the hospital barely clinging to life. A bullet was fired from his sister-in-law's gun ripped through his intestines, tore a hole in his stomach, and caused him to lose so much blood that they had to do three blood transfusions to save his life. Even after his condition stabilized, he was hooked up to so many machines that he was unable to talk for two months(a tracheotomy was performed to help with his breathing.)Even after he left the hospital, he has to undergo months of intensive rehabilitation. He has to take a year off of work, is thousands of dollars in the hole and still is limited by his injuries.
Maybe if those NRA enthusiasts actually knew someone whose life was altered so radically by gun violence, or even taken by it, they would think twice before condemning those who want to crack down on illegal gun sales.
P.S. SirDavidDragonSlayer, your tone throughout this thread is far from that of a "loving" Christian. In fact, it is permeated through and through with the most profound contempt for those who dare disagree with you. Maybe that is why you so insist on the "right to bear arms", so you can use them on those you don't like.
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"I"m not a witch, but I wish I was. If I live I"d be a witch now after what they have done. I"ll burn their crops and kill their animals. I"ll stir up such storms. I"ll scatter their ships across the world. If I could meet with the devil right now, I would give him anything for power, for he is the only way to power for women in this world. I shouldn"t have been afraid of Ellen, I should have learnt. Oh, if I only had magic, I"d make them feel it."
Caryl Churchill, "Vinegar Tom"
"It might be the greatest thing ever invented, but if it"s invented, then it"s not worth dying for."
Taj Bachmann, former missionary
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sirdaviddragonslayer
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41# |
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