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snakechic
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(Date Posted:01/29/2008 20:37:22)

Part 2 of my questioning the 'Indoctrination Principle'  - which I think is nothing but an excuse ...

I'm pasting another entry from Greta's blog.......(link at bottom of page)

( i had further comments but I lost the 1st & 3nd attempts  I've tried to make )

Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts -- A Review

Mistakes_were_madeI am totally having fits about this book. Everyone reading this blog has to read it. Everyone not reading this blog has to read it. I was already more or less familiar with the concepts in it before I started reading... and I am nevertheless finding it a life-changer.

And in particular, anyone interested in religion has to read it. It doesn't talk much about religion specifically; but the ideas in it are spot-on pertinent to the topic.

For believers... and for atheists.

Excuses_for_dummiesA quick summary. The book is about cognitive dissonance: the uncomfortable-at-best feeling you get when things you do, or things that happen, contradict your beliefs -- about yourself or the world. It's about the unconscious justifications, rationalizations, and other defense mechanisms we use to keep that dissonance at bay. It's about the ways that these rationalizations perpetuate and entrench themselves. And it's about some of the ways we may be able to derail them. The book is fascinating and readable; it's clear, well-written, well-researched, loaded with examples, and often very funny.

Im_with_stupidThe basic idea: When we believe something that turns out to be untrue, it conflicts with our concept of ourselves as intelligent. When we make a decision that turns out badly, it conflicts with our concept of ourselves as competent. And when we do something that hurts someone, it conflicts with our concept of ourselves as good. That's the dissonance.

And what we do, much if not most of the time, is rationalize. We come up with reasons why our mistake wasn't really a mistake; why our bad deed wasn't really so bad.

"I couldn't help it." "Everyone else does it." "It's not that big a deal." "I was tired/sick." "They made me do it." "I'm sure it'll work out in the long run." "I work hard, I deserve this." "History will prove me right." "I can accept money and gifts and still be impartial." "Actually, spending fifty thousand dollars on a car makes a lot of sense." "When the Leader said the world was going to end on August 22, 1997, he was just speaking metaphorically."

PropagandanazijapanesemonsterIn fact, we have entire social structures based on supporting and perpetuating each other's rationalizations -- from patriotic fervor in wartime to religion and religious apologetics.

More on that in a bit.

I could summarize the book ad nauseum, and this could easily turn into a 5,000 word book review. But I do have my own actual points to make. So here are, IMO, the most important pieces of info to take from this book

Brainlobessvg1) This process is unconscious. It's incredibly easy to see when someone else is rationalizing a bad decision. It's incredibly difficult to see when we're doing it ourselves. The whole way that this process works hinges on it being unconscious -- if we were conscious of it, it wouldn't work.

Crowd2) This process is universal. All human beings do it. In fact, all human beings do it pretty much every day. Every time we take a pen from work and think, "Oh everyone does it, and the company can afford it"; every time we light a cigarette after deciding to quit and think, "Well, I only smoke half a pack a day, that's not going to kill me"; every time we eat a pint of Ben and Jerry's for dinner and think, "It's been a long week, I deserve this"; every time we buy consumer products made in China (i.e., by slave labor) and think, "I really need new sneakers, and I just can't afford to buy union-made"... that's rationalization in action. It is a basic part of human mental functioning. If you think you're immune... I'm sorry to break this to you, but you're mistaken. (See #1 above, re: this process being unconscious, and very hard to detect when we're in the middle of it.)

Circle_of_two_arrows_23) This process is self-perpetuating. The deeper we get into a rationalization, the more likely we are to repeat the bad decision, hang on to the mistaken belief, continue to do harm to others.

This is probably the scariest part of the book. When we hurt someone and convince ourselves that they deserved it, we're more likely to hurt them -- or other people like them -- again. Partly because we've already convinced ourselves that they're bad, so why not... but also, in large part, to bolster our belief that our original decision was right.

PrisonThe most chilling examples of this are in the justice system and international relations. In the justice system, cops and prosecutors are powerfully resistant to the idea that they might have made a mistake and put the wrong person in prison. As a result, they actively resist revisiting cases, even when new evidence turns up. And the justice system is, in far too many ways, structured to support this pattern.

As for this process playing out in international relations, I have just three words: "The Middle East." Any time you have a decades- or centuries-old "they started it" vendetta, you probably have one of these self-perpetuating rationalization processes on your hands. On all sides.

Mean_girlsBut this happens on a small scale as well, with individuals. I know that I've said snarky, mean things behind people's backs, for no good reason other than that friends of mine didn't like them and were being mean and snarky about them... and I've then convinced myself that I really couldn't stand that person, and gone on to say even more mean things about them. And I've more than once tried to convince my friends to dislike the people that I disliked... because if my friends liked them, it was harder to convince myself that my dislike was objectively right and true. All unconsciously, of course. It's taken time and perspective to see that that's what I was doing.

Commitment4) The more we have at stake in a decision, the harder we hang on to our rationalization for it.

This is a freaky paradox, but it makes a terrible kind of sense when you think about it. The further along we've gone with a bad decision, and the more we've committed to it, the more likely we are to justify it -- and to stick with it, and to invest in it even more heavily.

History_of_the_end_of_the_worldA perfect example of this is end-of-the-world cults. When people quit their jobs and sell their houses to follow some millennial leader, they're more likely to hang on to their beliefs, even though the world conspicuously did not end on August 22, 1997 like they thought it would. If someone doesn't sell their house to prepare for the end of the world -- if, say, they just take a week off work -- they'll find it easier to admit that they made a mistake.

Helter_skelterAnd this is true, not just for bad decisions and mistaken beliefs, but immoral acts as well. Paradoxically, the worse the thing is that you've done, the more likely you are to rationalize it, and to stick to your rationalization like glue. As I wrote before when I mentioned this book: It's relatively easy to reconcile your belief that you're a good person with the fact that you sometimes make needlessly catty remarks and forget your friends' birthdays. It's a lot harder to reconcile your belief that you're a good person with the fact that you carved up a pregnant woman and smeared her blood on the front door. The more appalling your immoral act was, the more likely you are to have a rock-solid justification for it... or a justification that you think is rock-solid, even if everyone around you thinks it's transparently self-serving or batshit loony.

Icepick25) This process is necessary.

This may be the hardest part of all this to grasp. As soon as you start learning about the unconscious rationalization of cognitive dissonance, you start wanting to take an icepick and dig out the part of your brain that's responsible for it.

Long_dark_teatime_of_the_soulBut in fact, rationalization exists for a reason. It enables us to make decisions without being paralyzed about every possible consequence. It enables us to have confidence and self-esteem, even though we've made mistakes in the past. And it enables us to live with ourselves. Without it, we'd be paralyzed with guilt and shame and self-doubt. Perpetually. We'd never sleep. We'd be second-guessing everything we do. We'd be having dark nights of the soul every night of our lives.

Mistakes_were_made_2So that's the gist of the book. Cognitive dissonance, and the unconscious rationalizations and justifications we come up with to deal with it, are a basic part of human consciousness. It's a necessary process... but it also does harm, sometimes great harm. So we need to come up with ways, both individually and institutionally, to minimize the harm that it does. And since the process is harder to stop the farther along it's gone, we need to find ways to catch it early.

That's the concept. And I think it's important.

It's important because, in a very practical and down-to-earth way, this concept gives us a partial handle on why dumb mistakes, absurd beliefs, and harmful acts get perpetuated. And it gives us -- again, in a very practical, down-to-earth way -- a handle on what we can do about it.

Wicked_witchWe have a tendency to think that bad people know they're bad. Our popular culture is full of villains cackling over their beautiful wickedness, or trying to lure their children to The Dark Side. It's a very convenient way of positioning evil outside ourselves, as something we could never do ourselves. Evil is Out There, something done by The Other. (In fact, I'd argue that this whole cultural trope is itself a very effective support for rationalization. "Sure, I set the stove on fire/ shagged the babysitter/ gave my money to a con artist... but it's not like I'm Darth Vader.")

Osama_bin_ladenBut reality isn't like that. Genuine sociopaths are rare. Most people who do bad things -- even terrible, appalling, flatly evil things -- don't think of themselves as bad people. They think of themselves as good people, and they think of their evil acts as understandable, acceptable, justifiable by the circumstances. In some cases, they even think of their evil acts as positive goods.

EyeIf we want to mitigate the effects of foolish beliefs, bad decisions, and hurtful acts, we need to look at the reality of how these things happen. We need to be vigilant about our own tendency to rationalize our mistakes. We need to be knowledgeable about how to effectively deal with other people's rationalizations. We need to create institutional structures designed to catch both our mistakes and our rationalizations, and to support us in acknowledging them. (The scientific method is a pretty good model of this.) And especially in America, we need to create a culture that doesn't see mistakes as proof of incompetence, misconceptions as proof of stupidity, and hurtful acts as proof of evil.

And this book offers us ways to do all of that.

OptimismThe book isn't perfect. There are, for instance, some very important questions that it neglects to answer. Specifically, I kept finding myself wondering: What's the difference between rationalization and simple optimism, or positive thinking? What's the difference between rationalizing a bad decision, and just having a silver-lining, "seeing the bright side" attitude? And if there is a difference, how can you tell which one you're doing?

Journey_outAnd, as a commenter here in the blog asked when I mentioned this book earlier: What's the difference between justifying why your bad behavior wasn't really bad -- and genuinely changing your mind about what is and isn't bad? Think of all the people who believed that homosexual sex was wrong and they were bad people for even thinking about it... until they actually did it, and spent time with other people who did it, and realized that there wasn't actually anything wrong with it. How do you tell the difference between a rationalization and a genuine change of heart?

ThinkerSomewhat more seriously, the section on "What can we actually do about this?" is rather shorter than I would have liked. The authors do have some excellent practical advice on dealing with cognitive dissonance and rationalization. But while their advice on dealing with other people's rationalizations is helpful, and their ideas on creating institutional structures to nip the process in the bud are inspired, their advice for dealing with one's own dissonance/ rationalization pretty much comes down to, "Just try to be aware of it." Problematic -- since as they themselves point out, rationalization and justification are singularly
resistant to introspection.

But it's a grand and inspiring start, an excellent foundation on an important topic. It's been a life-changer, and I recommend it passionately to everyone.

So what does it have to do with religion?

(To be continued tomorrow.)

January 29, 2008 in Atheism, Books and Language, Science, Skepticism | Permalink



(Message edited by snakechic on 01/29/2008 20:51:40)

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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

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RE:Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me): Why We Justify Foolish Beliefs, Bad Decisions, and Hurtful Acts
(Date Posted:02/05/2008 10:41:46)

This looks like a really good book and it seems that the conclusion is that we need to be more responsible and vigilant and own up to our mistakes but be supported in doing so and find a way of keeping face.  I think the problem in the USA is that people have to save face all the time and appear to be a success which is why they are in denial of their mistakes and prefer to blame others.  This can range from the little boy who blames his friend for the trick they played to the sociopathic boss who blames his employees for all his bad decisions.  I'd rather somebody own up to their mistakes and ask for forgiveness than blame me for them.

From my point of view I used to kid myself that there was such a thing as a free lunch at all those conferences and meetings I attended.  In fact there is no such thing and there shouldn't be such a thing as a free lunch.  The food was of poor quality and todgy as well as large in quantity.  No wonder I got sick and ended up with chronic fatigue syndrome.  I discovered that the free lunch which was usually a cold buffet lunch was used to lure people to attend the course/conference/meeting/event and was also of such a poor quality it had a soporific effect on the participants in the afternoon so that they wouldn't be alert and participating honestly and fully or on the other hand realising what exactly was going on and leaving.  I did an experiment a few times where I attended a conference or course and ate only one sandwich leaving the rest while taking a break outside in the fresh air.  For the rest of the afternoon I was more alert than I was usually when I ate loads from the buffet table and could concentrate.  However my energy levels were not on the same par as the others and they began to object to my honesty and vitality.

A male friend of mine buys very cheap clothes from in Asda (a subsidiary of Wal Mart) because he likes to also buy fair trade clothing often made from hemp in order to be ethical.  This leaves him with little money to spend on other clothes which is why he goes for the cheapest option.  Then he gets guilty and buys fair trade clothing.  He will not buy in charity shops as there is very little in the way of second clothing for men as men tend to wear clothes til they wear out.  It's a bit like eating the healthiest diet possible with all organic food and then finding it so expensive you have to then eat very cheap food at the end of the week in order to balance your budget.  Far better to go for a constant medium quality.

I think there is a common mistake that women make when looking for a partner.  They get a first impression of a man and if it's negative don't listen to that inner voice.  Then they spend the rest of the time looking for information to contradict that first impression and wonder why they are in a relationship with somebody who's violent or who is totally uncaring or untrustworthy.  I've done it myself many a time.  I meet somebody who's drunk or talks about finding the best bars whenever he goes out in the evening or the concert was ruined by the expense of the beer sold there or the difficulty in getting served with a drink and feel a bit uneasy about him and think what a bore he is.  Then I kid myself that he's really a nice person underneath and needs a good woman to take care of him.  Months down the line I'm stuck with an alcoholic boyfriend that I'm desperate to get rid of and when I eventually do I'm riddled with guilty and end up depressed and on anti-depressants.  I really don't want to go there again.

(Message edited by Chirpy on 02/05/2008 10:44:11)
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