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snakechic
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1#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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RE:snakechick
(Date Posted:08/07/2008 18:17:08)
a non denominational believer I see...
okay
use reason.
what use is salvation if I don't believe in hell/heaven ?
what am I being 'saved' from.?
Yes...you are right, christianity is very hard to accept.
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Guest
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RE:snakechick
(Date Posted:08/08/2008 03:22:01)
> a non denominational believer I see...
incorrect
> okay
> use reason.
> what use is salvation if I don't believe in hell/heaven ?
> what am I being 'saved' from.?
If you don't buy it, you get no chance of winning the prize. Like not buying a lottery ticket. The prize is still there though, and it's a guaranteed win in this game. By not choosing it, you accept death of your soul. You could be truly happy. Seems a big deal to me.
> Yes...you are right, christianity is very hard to accept.
It's also very easy. Depends on your situation.
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snakechic
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3#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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RE:snakechick
(Date Posted:08/13/2008 21:45:08)
oh dear...is this the best you can do.
I could be truly happy without it too....for free and having to sit through boring sermons every second day!
hehehe..
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Guest
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RE:snakechick
(Date Posted:08/14/2008 03:02:12)
I'm afraid that's it yeah. Extreme life or mundane reality.
Seems like your church experience is also mundane reality.
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snakechic
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5#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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RE:snakechick
(Date Posted:08/14/2008 19:41:38)
Ah...so you are suggesting that being a christian for you, is how you become 'truelly happy'. - because you're safely in a lottery pool
to think you have 'ever lasting life'...
?
Does that ring your bell?
Okay - its your life.
Does anyone know if there is a lottery prize? what are you actually betting on?
HOw does it make you feel..to know that there are people around the place, who don't want to buy into your game.
That I think its silly...
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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fartypants
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6#
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From: Wales 
Registered:08/14/2008
Time spent: 0 hours
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Reply To snakechic
(Date Posted:08/15/2008 06:14:10)
Ah...so you are suggesting that being a christian for you, is how you become 'truelly happy'. - because you're safely in a lottery poolto think you have 'ever lasting life'...?Well you win the prize - which is the potential to be happy in a way not possible without Does that ring your bell?Sure does!  Okay - its your life.Yup Does anyone know if there is a lottery prize? what are you actually betting on?Very long odds I hear. Mainly it (the real thing) is a ticket to dissatisfaction with your life and what it can be, sorta hopelessness you pay for --- but that's another subject!!!  HOw does it make you feel..to know that there are people around the place, who don't want to buy into your game. That I think its silly...It makes me sad. You wouldn't see that, coz you don't look through my eyes. ...here ...take a look ... See? - people not living up to their potential. Sad innit?! I'm being serious. I'm me, you are you (incisive huh!? ). We look at stuff differently.
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AthenaMarina
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7#
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Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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RE:snakechick
(Date Posted:10/31/2008 17:20:13)
(1) In exchange for faith, Christianity promises a full life right here, right now. The 'afterelife' refers to the timeless nature of the spirit.
A full life? No, a very RESTRICTED one.
(2) Christianity is very hard for comfortable, happy people to accept. They think they're rich, when in reality they're poor.
I know people who've been made miserable by Christianity and I used to be one of them.
No, not ALL Christians.
(3) Religion seeks obedience using fear. Faith offers love and support.
Christianity says do what I say or go to hell and also you could be tortured for your faith - sorry these things used to inspire HUGE FEAR in me esp the torture thing I HATE PAIN!
(4) Wo(man) is born sinful. Wo(man) is fallable. God offers unconditional love and Wo(man) can choose wether or not to accept it. A wonderful, full life is the choice of wo(man). It's a cruel but beautiful truth.
Christianity (or at least the version I grew up with) was about we are worms we are scum we are like a women having a period's dirty rags (EW!) It makes people think they are worthless.
(5) Christianity demands reasoning. It implores followers to make full use of reason & questioning. If your happiness is delusion then realisation and assistance in achieving fuller happiness is surely a good thing?
Reasoning and logic is what got me OUT of the maze of Christianity. Look up "Biblical errors" or inconsistencies and YOU my friend will be in for a big surprise!
I agree with Snakechick's quote - Christianity makes itself a crutch by first taking away many OTHER things that might be making you happy!
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Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!
I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!
"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)
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rwjefferson
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8#
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Rank:none
Score:5
Posts:5
Registered:02/24/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:11/30/2008 15:29:59)
Reply to guest and AthenaMarina and snakechick
Please forgive.
The serpent is a subtle beast; it will whisper Words that kill yet claim them Holy. Souls thus poisoned can be difficult to redeem.
You and George H. Smith and all that confuse Christian iNo with Christian ItS are incorrect.
In simple fact, the Pharisees won the battle and have since perverted ‘Christianity’ into their own corrupt Phundie image.
That does not mean that Christianity is what the idolaters and blasphemers claim it to be.
That does not mean that all 'Christians' are blinded by this corrupt image of God and Christ.
That does not mean that the spirit of good and all will not win the war against the beast of evil.
Jesus offered simple truths.
In exchange for forgiving the sins of others; your sins are also forgiven.
In exchange for loving and treating others as equal; you will find heaven.
There is no Christian or not, slave or free, male or female, for all are one in the spirit.
This is not necessarily obedience; this is a simple trust in god and nature.
Please do not paint Christians ItS with the same brush as Christians iNo.
That benefits only the Christians iNo.
I am
ItS
r~
iNo – in Name only
ItS – in the spirit
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snakechic
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9#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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Re:snakechick
(Date Posted:12/03/2008 00:01:53)
I don't agree with you ...I also don't agree that some christian can refuse responsiblity for the whole - the thing that is called 'christianity' .
the sentiments expressed reminds me of the 'true' christian dogma - that there is such a thing.
(Message edited by snakechic On 12/03/2008 00:07:23)
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Guest
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RE:snakechick
(Date Posted:12/07/2008 13:56:09)
"I don’t agree with you."
You do not agree that the Pharisees won.
You do not agree that Christianity has been perverted.
You do not agree that Jesus called to forgive the sins of others.
You do not agree that Jesus called to love and help and treat others as equal.
You do not agree that Jesus did not recognize class divisions between people.
Idolatry (def):
Belief that denies truth.
I can find no significant difference between your Belief in the Holy Words of George Smith and the Christian iNo Belief in the Holy Words of Bible.
Please forgive.
Your heart has been twisted into what twisted it.
By your standard, all atheists should be held responsible that atheists have committed genocide.
By your standard, you should be held responsible if someone commits a crime and falsely claims you told them to.
Jesus stood against the Jewish iNo Pharisees; even as he would stand against the Christian iNo Phundies that have so blinded you.
ItS
Peace
r~
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Guest
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Please accept my sincere gratitude.
(Date Posted:12/10/2008 20:52:05)
I wish to thank whoever reinstated my posts.
I cannot adequately express my sincere gratitude.
Yet please forgive.
Still, find myself compelled to ask even more:
May I please be reinstated as a member and not a guest in our fight against the evil that is Fundamentalism?
Peace
r~
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snakechic
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12#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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Re:snakechick
(Date Posted:12/16/2008 17:15:11)
Ha?
what the....?
such a common old addiction 'christians' seem to have.....to JUDGE others.
What use is it to you?
--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Guest
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United Westand, divided We fall.
(Date Posted:12/16/2008 21:47:36)
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snakechick:
"Ha?
what the....?
such a common old addiction 'christians' seem to have.....to JUDGE others.
What use is it to you?"
Ha?
what the….?
such a common old addiction you 'atheists' and phundies seem to have…
to judge and ban and censor and delete others with whom you disagree.
What use is it to you?
What use is a Lion's den if you fear and ban and censor and delete the lions?
Christianity.com banned me for standing against their judging of others.
WAFF banned me for standing against your judging of others.
Please tell exactly how this is different from the Phundies?
George H. Smith and you (by posting his less than truthful rant) judge
all 'christians' by the crimes of the Phundies that falsely claim the
name 'christian'.
I do not willingly cede good to evil.
I stand against all judgment of others.
Note: I will have no argument with you or George if you change 'Christianity' to 'Phundaseeism'.
"I don't agree with you…"
This is a blanket statement and does not allow that we might actually have common agreements…
such as that Phundies are evil and have perverted 'Christianity' beyond Jesus' recognition…
that Phundies need to be exposed and stopped…
or that Jesus actually stood against those that judge and condemn others.
"I don't agree with you..."
Ha?
what the…
why?
Please stop your RANTS and SHOUTING and talk to me as an equal in our common fight against the evil of Phundamentalism.
United We stand, divided We fall.
And please loose your less than truthful quote.
Please forgive.
ItS
Peace
r~
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Cyranothe2nd
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14#
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Rank:none
Score:799
Posts:799
Registered:07/29/2001
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:snakechick
(Date Posted:12/17/2008 04:13:30)
Christianity demands reasoning. It implores followers to make full use
of reason & questioning. If your happiness is delusion then
realisation and assistance in achieving fuller happiness is surely a
good thing?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If *only* this were the case, America (not to mention the world) would be a much better place. However, it is not. Religions, and Christianity in particular, limits free thought. For instance, creationism instead of evolution (which has been tested and proven true time and again). But followers of Christ consistantly deny scientific truths and embrace fables because they are told that they must. It is groupthink at its worst.
Another example-- denying gays the right to marry/have anti-descrimination laws--a purely religious agruement and one that cannot be supported by rational thought and only supported by the dictates of an ancient book. Again, these people don't think for themselves-they follow a set of dogmas written in an ancient book.
Do all xians deny gays rights or deny that evolution is taking place? No. But they are either in direct opposition to the teachings of their church or their faith is so nebulous (ie. not based on anything but their own feelings) as to be non-existant. Either way the end result is the same...Christianity does not encourage free thought. It encourages conformity, obedience and submission.
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