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Drummond
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(Date Posted:06/24/2003 11:58:21)
My brother has some graphic novels which I may borrow when I'm done with Preacher. Does that count?
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From American Splendor
Student to Harvey Pekar: "It"s hard enough trying to convince people that socialism is a good thing without basing your argument on some abstract theory of human nature. Plato tried and failed. Fourier tried and failed. Marx tried and failed. Sartre tried and failed."
Harvey Pekar: "Well maybe I c"n learn from their mistakes."
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zonmoy
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(Date Posted:02/24/2004 05:45:15)
Reply to : Mistercyrano
Ok, even I, still believing in God, have a hard time swallowing LeHaye and Jenkin's impression of how revelation is going to come down, but I am so obsessive, since I began the series while I was still with the church, that I have to finsih the series. I'm not so much in it for all the biblical hype anymore as I am just to find out who dies and how. But I want to know who has read the left behind series and what you all think, whether it be opinions of the writing itself, the biblical implications, whatever.
I started reading the first book of the series after my nephews gave me a copy as part of their plan to rebrainwash me. I found the book to be not nearly as good as my family and other families claimed. as liturature I would probably rate it about as good as L. Ron hubbards mission earth saga although his books are a much better read.
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Question everything
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phoenixgirl
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(Date Posted:03/09/2004 04:49:04)
I read, "Right Behind" or whatever the parody of it was. I also saw the first movie with my boyfriend's redneck fundy grandparents. Pop-Pop says, "Yep," that's how it's all going to go down.
Also, one of my students who is not so bright (sorry Antonio) is reading some dumbed-down children's version of them. He showed me one in class and asked me if I had read them. I just played dumb and said no, and he explained that they're really exciting and that there are lots of different stories happening to different people in each. Hey, at least the kid is reading. If he doesn't brain-wash himself in the process, he might develop some strong critical thinking skills as a by-product.
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--Phoenixgirl
"I am influenced at the present time by far higher considerations and by a nobler idea of duty than I ever was when I held the Evangelical belief." George Eliot
"I have one great fear in my heart, that one day when they are turned to loving, they will find we are turned to hating." Alan Paton's Cry, the Beloved Country (I promise I read this before it was an Oprah book club book)
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Gautama
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(Date Posted:04/19/2004 06:09:49)
Reply to : Mistercyrano
Mister Cyrano,
Ok, even I, still believing in God, have a hard time swallowing LeHaye and Jenkin's impression of how revelation is going to come down, but I am so obsessive, since I began the series while I was still with the church, that I have to finsih the series. I'm not so much in it for all the biblical hype anymore as I am just to find out who dies and how. But I want to know who has read the left behind series and what you all think, whether it be opinions of the writing itself, the biblical implications, whatever.
I too believe in God, and I too have a hard time swallowing LaHaye and Jenkin's Dispensationalism. In a nutshell, the 'pre-millenium', pre-tribulation, 'secret-rapture' position is about 100 years old. That's it. It was first presented systematically by John Nelson Darby (of the Exclusive Brethren fame), systematised by C.I. Schofield in his rather unique edition of the KJV, and taught and defended in a scholarly way by the Dallas Theological Seminary (Chuck Swindoll's alma mater). According to 99% of the Church, and then from the earliest of days (by Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox through to Presbyterians and Lutherans) the theory is rubbish. However, if you're in a fundamentalist American denomination (some of the Baptist, Pentecostal and/or Charismatic groups), then chances are you've been raised on a diet of this stuff. The reason is Schofield's Bible was adopted as the version of preference during the fundamentalist-liberal squabbles of the 1930s onwards. Dispensational Pre-Millenialism, then, has almost become a test of one's orthodoxy in such groups.
If you're interested, you may want to do a little research into the position held by the bulk of the Church for the last 1,900 years. This position on eschatology (the study of 'end-things') is generally referred to as 'Amillenialism'.
In closing, I think you can safely dismiss the entire 'Left Behind' series as interesting, albeit very entertaining fiction.
Cheerio,
Gautama
P.S. By the way, remember 'The Late Great Planet Earth'? That book was written by Hal Lindsay who is, surprise, surprise, a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary.
P.P.S. My advice would be to dump the 'end times prophecy' junk altogether. It's amazing how an entire interpretative schema has been crafted around (principally) one verse in the book of Revelation!
Oops, had to edit a little to get rid of two embarrassing grammatical faux pas!
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Voltaire
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(Date Posted:04/19/2004 09:32:29)
P.P.S. My advice would be to dump the 'end times prophecy' junk altogether. It's amazing how an entire interpretative schema has been crafted around (principally) one verse in the book of Revelation!
Now this is a new one; which verse is it? I find this hard to belive; please tell more!
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Zombies, Unicorns, Devils, Sea Monsters, Satyrs, Dragons, Six Winged Angels, Gods, Demons, Witches, Astrologers, A walking & talking snake, Magical fruit, Talking donkeys, human headed six-winged beasts, Ghosts. All that stuff is in the Bible and yet they tell me it"s not mythology?
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Gautama
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(Date Posted:04/19/2004 10:06:30)
Reply to : Voltaire
G'day, Voltaire.
The passage of which I speak is Revelation 20:4
"...And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and (I saw) the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and such as worshipped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years." (ASV)
The term 'millennialism', as you probably already know, comes from the Greek word for 'thousand' (chilioi). The inference that 'literalists' have drawn from this is that of an actual period of ruling and reigning on earth for one thousand years: the so-called 'Millennium'. Unfortunately, the Revelation conforms to a Jewish biblical genre known as apocalyptic. And one of the hallmarks of apocalyptic is symbolism. One of the basic tenets of responsible biblical interpretation, especially of passages drawn from this very genre, is that one must read literarily, before one reads literally.
Anyway...
Gautama
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Voltaire
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(Date Posted:04/20/2004 06:14:05)
One of the basic tenets of responsible biblical interpretation, especially of passages drawn from this very genre, is that one must read literarily, before one reads literally.
I've read this sentence over and over again and somehow I just don't understand it, even though this looks like a very interesting point you're making. Could you explain this some more?
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Zombies, Unicorns, Devils, Sea Monsters, Satyrs, Dragons, Six Winged Angels, Gods, Demons, Witches, Astrologers, A walking & talking snake, Magical fruit, Talking donkeys, human headed six-winged beasts, Ghosts. All that stuff is in the Bible and yet they tell me it"s not mythology?
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Gautama
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(Date Posted:04/20/2004 06:48:37)
Reply to : Voltaire
Back again...
I've read this sentence over and over again and somehow I just don't understand it, even though this looks like a very interesting point you're making. Could you explain this some more?
Sure. The various authors of the biblical books wrote their pieces according to the literary conventions of their times and cultures, just as we do today. Ultimately, the message they sought to impart must be understood within the confines of the particular medium in which they chose to write it. So, just as one doesn't read poetry (affective) as if it were prose (cognitive), one shouldn't read apocalyptic as if it were out-and-out narrative.
In brief, then, one should read, and interpret, biblical literature according to the conventions applied for each genre at the time in which it was written. It would be either really dumb, or really arrogant (perhaps even both) to read 1st century Judeo-Greek religious apocalyptic uncritically, or worse still, according 21st century western standards. Hence my comment that one should read literarily before one reads literally.
Ciao,
Gautama
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Waynus
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(Date Posted:04/24/2004 11:54:49)
Gautama I think your right here. So many stupid comments on the bible arise when the person making the comment has no idea of the literary features of the text they are using. So Jonah becomes an historical account, Job was a real man and Revelation is some sot of map to the end of the world.
I am often reminded of one of Robert Funk's often repeated ideas. That it is not religion that is our problem but ignorance of religion. He thinks that the more we understand about the real origin and teaching of all religions the more accurate and humane our lives will be.
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There is no fire like hatred, no rushing river like craving, and no snare like illusion. Buddha
Random thoughts at
http://waynus.blogspot.com/
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Gautama
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