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BunnyGirl77
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(Date Posted:07/15/2004 02:03:51)

Hi!My name is Erika..I am an ex-fundie...and am struggling deeply.I am tired of crucifying my mind and reason (LOGOS-word-reason) instead of crucifying selfishness.Fundies appear to be Crucfying Christ afresh as paul said..by crucifying their minds .and it is a short leap to wondering why they resemble the Beast power of revelation they are so often railing on about.It is okay to watch innocent people getting the crap blown out of them on TV, but heaven forfend someone should flash a boobee, let the hystrionics begin....and it appears that it is okay to lie through your teeth for the cause of christ...(sigh)About me...well i have been through alot of trauma.I was in grad school in math (having switched in from grad physics) when i was assaulted by a drunk body builder and beaten unconcious..the ramifications were that stuff started coming up from a fairly tortured childhood where i was the whipping post and dumping ground for a father who had Narcisitic Personality Disorder-NPD..(like little anthony for watchers of the old Twilight Zone)..i ended up leaving grad school..was using alcohol as a crutch..At the time i had PTSD, panic disorder, agoraphobia, and depression.Fell in with fundies, and was delivered from alcohol ...for real, the desire just isn't there unless i am under EXTREME duress...I fell in with the rapturite cult for awhile, then got serious about trying to DECIPHER the bible...having gone through just about every theological view...and trying to understand it for myself, twisting my brain in knots, and killing off major populations of braincells by denying the obvious,..having started with the faulty premise that the bible was THE INNERRANT WORD OF GOD..(gack!)My head broke open...i had a blinding flash of realization....BIBLEGOD OF THE OT WAS JUST LIKE MY DAD!!!!!Too creepy! My fiance who stuck with me through all of this has often said that as vindictive as biblegod is he wanted the protection of satan..ah well.I had not realized how profoundly fundamentalism had been depressing me until i read a universalist site that went over the concept of "hell" in detail..and showed with bible verses that in the end everyone would be saved..i danced and wept with JOY...i was so releived....It was like a deep blackness had been lifted off of me. I was so tired of living in constant fear..this was the beggining of the end for me.I AM SO GLAD TO HAVE MY MIND BACK...because i was always extremely curious and very creative..learning is my greatest joy..(probably why i am again a gnostic)Now i can read my beloved Sinus Fiction without being afraid of contracting demons..I am alsoone of those dingdongs that actually lies awake at night worrying and crying for all the suffering creatures and people in this screwed up world..yes i know i am a nut and that is okay..people have always made fun of me for this, but i do not care.(the fundie attitude towards animals is especially repulsive to me..and they attack me like i am satan incarnate because i am vegan)Anyhowi have come out of a few years of hell struggling economically, spiritually,and otherwise, having temporarily moved back in with my folks,and out again..Istill sometimes struggle with DEEP FEAR..and i am pretty sure that it is because of all the trauma i have had in my life...Fear be damned i am tired of being afraid, of crying in the darkness,the OPPRESSIVENESS of biblegod, of being in pain..time to step into the light, behold let all things be new!I also have a very dear friend who has stuck by me through all of this and he is very much a fundie..believes the bible is inerrant. It is so difficult for me to talk with him..i always get pat answers to everything,like he has biblegod in a box that he consults like a magic eight ball or something.I was trying to show him that the biblegod had created evil and dwelt in darkness and the amount of rationalization my friend did to justify the verses was numbing....i can't even tell him what i really think because i love him as a dear friend.Apparently i have to ignore what secular scholars say because they are filled with lies of satan.i have been reading alot of secular sources about the origin of the bible..and it appears that it is the 'christian scholars' who may not be telling the truthI am so tired of putting my brain in deep freeze..Fly be free!It is like i have seen the light after a long dark night..even though i am still struggling with the fear..perfect love casts out fear..Anyway this looks like a WONDERFUL PLACE...so glad it is here.Bighugs, Erika
BunnyGirl77
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(Date Posted:07/15/2004 02:03:52)


Hi!


My name is Erika..


I am an ex-fundie...and am struggling deeply.


I am tired of crucifying my mind and reason (LOGOS-word-reason) instead of crucifying selfishness.


Fundies appear to be Crucfying Christ afresh as paul said..by crucifying their minds .


and it is a short leap to wondering why they resemble the Beast power of revelation they are so often railing on about.


It is okay to watch innocent people getting the crap blown out of them on TV, but heaven forfend someone should flash a boobee, let the hystrionics begin....and it appears that it is okay to lie through your teeth for the cause of christ...(sigh)


About me...well i have been through alot of trauma.


I was in grad school in math (having switched in from grad physics) when i was assaulted by a drunk body builder and beaten unconcious..the ramifications were that stuff started coming up from a fairly tortured childhood where i was the whipping post and dumping ground for a father who had Narcisitic Personality Disorder-NPD..(like little anthony for watchers of the old Twilight Zone)..i ended up leaving grad school..was using alcohol as a crutch..


At the time i had PTSD, panic disorder, agoraphobia, and depression.


Fell in with fundies, and was delivered from alcohol ...for real, the desire just isn't there unless i am under EXTREME duress...


I fell in with the rapturite cult for awhile, then got serious about trying to DECIPHER the bible...having gone through just about every theological view...and trying to understand it for myself, twisting my brain in knots, and killing off major populations of braincells by denying the obvious,..having started with the faulty premise that the bible was THE INNERRANT WORD OF GOD..


(gack!)


My head broke open...i had a blinding flash of realization....BIBLEGOD OF THE OT WAS JUST LIKE MY DAD!!!!!


Too creepy! My fiance who stuck with me through all of this has often said that as vindictive as biblegod is he wanted the protection of satan..ah well.


I had not realized how profoundly fundamentalism had been depressing me until i read a universalist site that went over the concept of "hell" in detail..and showed with bible verses that in the end everyone would be saved..i danced and wept with JOY...i was so releived....


It was like a deep blackness had been lifted off of me. I was so tired of living in constant fear..this was the beggining of the end for me.


I AM SO GLAD TO HAVE MY MIND BACK...because i was always extremely curious and very creative..learning is my greatest joy..


(probably why i am again a gnostic)Now i can read my beloved Sinus Fiction without being afraid of contracting demons..


I am also one of those dingdongs that actually lies awake at night worrying and crying for all the suffering creatures and people in this screwed up world..yes i know i am a nut and that is okay..people have always made fun of me for this, but i do not care.(the fundie attitude towards animals is especially repulsive to me..and they attack me like i am satan incarnate because i am vegan)


Anyhow i have come out of a few years of hell struggling economically, spiritually, and otherwise, having temporarily moved back in with my folks,and out again..


I still sometimes struggle with DEEP FEAR..and i am pretty sure that it is because of all the trauma i have had in my life...


Fear be damned i am tired of being afraid, of crying in the darkness,the OPPRESSIVENESS of biblegod, of being in pain..time to step into the light, behold let all things be new!


I also have a very dear friend who has stuck by me through all of this and he is very much a fundie..believes the bible is inerrant. It is so difficult for me to talk with him..i always get pat answers to everything, like he has biblegod in a box that he consults like a magic eight ball or something.


I was trying to show him that the biblegod had created evil and dwelt in darkness and the amount of rationalization my friend did to justify the verses was numbing....i can't even tell him what i really think because i love him as a dear friend.


Apparently i have to ignore what secular scholars say because they are filled with lies of satan.i have been reading alot of secular sources about the origin of the bible ..and it appears that it is the 'christian scholars' who may not be telling the truth


I am so tired of putting my brain in deep freeze..


Fly be free!


It is like i have seen the light after a long dark night..even though i am still struggling with the fear..perfect love casts out fear..


Anyway this looks like a WONDERFUL PLACE...so glad it is here.


Bighugs, Erika
phoenixgirl
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(Date Posted:07/15/2004 17:21:40)

Erika,


A thousand welcomes to the forum!  Your story was poignant and raw and touching.  I laughed when you mentioned your friend who keeps God in a little box that he consults like a magic 8 ball.  I grieved when you mentioned the hard things you've endured in your lie. 


It's exhiliarating to throw off the shackles of an irrational and outdated faith, isn't it? 


This is the place to come when you make new discoveries and encounter difficulties.  I can relate to having a friend that you suddenly can't be yourself with.  It's painful.


Well, we're glad that you're here. 

--------------------------------------------------------------
--Phoenixgirl

"I am influenced at the present time by far higher considerations and by a nobler idea of duty than I ever was when I held the Evangelical belief." George Eliot
"I have one great fear in my heart, that one day when they are turned to loving, they will find we are turned to hating." Alan Paton's Cry, the Beloved Country (I promise I read this before it was an Oprah book club book)
Shadowself
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(Date Posted:07/15/2004 18:39:08)

Glad you've joined us, Erika.  What a story.  Together we'll write a new chapter, entitled, "Fundy Free!". 

--------------------------------------------------------------
A big revelation in my professional training was that humans can learn skills for living and relating. We don"t have to be desperate for a miracle of God to make us decent.--Marlene Winell
BunnyGirl77
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(Date Posted:07/15/2004 19:26:26)


Thank you Pheonixgirl and Shadowself..


I am still trying to understand WHY throwing off this  view brings all the magic and wonder back.


And it is true, i am struggling to relate to my friend..you know, oddly he is studying in psychology.He understands the PTSD, Fear, and dealing with my narcissistic dad. (why he thinks it is okay for biblegod to throw tantrums but not my dad...well who knows)


So how do you answer the objection about scholars lying because satan has blinded them? But what the secular scholars say makes sense..(i mean come on, why would the supposed creator of the universe want you to sacrifice animals to him? this was the levite preists way of controlling society )


I haven't discarded the bible altogether, i have a gnostic interpretation of it..so from what i can observe and understand..the god of the OT IS the god or archon of this world (the "devil' or satan= the adversary)..which appears to be perhaps the selfishness of us as human beings..


Yes i still struggle deeply with the fear of going to hell. How did you both get over the fear? was it gradual or sudden release from fear?
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(Date Posted:07/15/2004 23:36:17)



So how do you answer the objection about scholars lying because satan has blinded them?





I don't know if you can.  You can present all the possible reasons and proofs provided by scholars, but if they violate a fundy's world view, the fundy simply will not accept it.   Have you read the thread "Deep, Hot Family Waters" in the Support Forum?  My brother says the links I provide him are "secular websites", and in the next paragraph states "People are evil when they are controlled by the devil.  Do you not think the devil is evil?"  In other words, I feel he says, "Your proofs are written by those who are controlled by the devil, and thus are evil."  How in the world can you argue with that?  It's hard to find chinks in the fundy's armor.




Yes i still struggle deeply with the fear of going to hell. How did you both get over the fear? was it gradual or sudden release from fear?




I did believe in hell while a xtian, but I don't remember being obsessed with it, or feeling a lot of fear about it.  I guess I just accepted that I was saved, and as long as I kept Jesus in front of me, I wouldn't stray.  I was always attracted more to the teachings of love, grace, and forgiveness, than those of fear, guilt and shame (though they weren't totally absent from my life; just not prominent--most of the time).  This is why it turned me off when my church gradually seemed to become more fundamentalist than it had been.  And as years passed, and I began to see the contradictions, the problems, the abuses of xtianity...belief in hell was just one more thing that flew out the window with the baby and the rest of the bathwater.

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A big revelation in my professional training was that humans can learn skills for living and relating. We don"t have to be desperate for a miracle of God to make us decent.--Marlene Winell
phoenixgirl
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(Date Posted:07/16/2004 01:43:15)

Hi BunnyGirl77






So how do you answer the objection about scholars lying because satan has blinded them?







To me, "the devil did it!" is the last ditch loophole that fundies rely on when their faith doesn't make sense. Sure, there is an infinitesimal chance that we really are all deceived by an evil power, but isn't it clear that the most logical, rational, and sane explanation is that science and common sense aren't wrong, as you said? The thing is that people who blame inconsistencies on the devil have a vested interest in proving that Christianity is true. If they were completely open-minded and willing to accept the truth no matter what it is, they wouldn't have to come up with these cockamamie theories. Blaming it on the devil is making up an explanation that allows you to keep your beliefs even when evidence points to the contrary. Wouldn't you rather weigh the evidence without deciding what is true ahead of time?






How did you both get over the fear? was it gradual or sudden release from fear?





Like Shadowshelf, I was one of those Christians who didn't focus much on hell but instead felt that since God was so good He'd/It'd work it out in a good way for everyone. Others here have felt a crippling fear of hell that followed them even after walking away; hopefully some of those people will chime in with applicable advice.



I think it's a little related, though, that I finally chucked my fear that I was rejecting a faith that really was true on Sept. 11. I realized that since my idea of God was one of a good power, that if all those people who died terrible deaths that day who weren't evangelical Christians had really gone to hell, then I couldn't call that God good. So I wasn't afraid to chuck my faith anymore, because I decided that in the tiny, miniscule chance that I really was making a mistake, well, that God deserved to be rejected anyway.



If your friend likes to debate, you might want to give it some time before talking about things with him. Debate makes a friendship seem confrontational, and since you are the one going through a big deal, it might be too much to handle right now. You know what's just friendly discussion and what is a butting of heads.

--------------------------------------------------------------
--Phoenixgirl

"I am influenced at the present time by far higher considerations and by a nobler idea of duty than I ever was when I held the Evangelical belief." George Eliot
"I have one great fear in my heart, that one day when they are turned to loving, they will find we are turned to hating." Alan Paton's Cry, the Beloved Country (I promise I read this before it was an Oprah book club book)
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(Date Posted:07/16/2004 04:10:39)

How do and welcome Erika.

Interesting story and one that'll strike a chord with many people here. JHWH as Archon?Can't say I didn't think that myself when I learned more about gnostic theology. He does seem to be a petty tyrant psycho. I like the whole 8-ball in a box view of him.

Coming from the death and hell christian theology, I know it isn't easy to rid yourself of the indoctrination. there aren't any quick answers. For me, it was a strictly a choice. Did I believe in this god and his hell or not? I said NOT. I spoke it out loud, willing myself to stand straight and accept my responsibility for my life and not some foggy invisible old guy in a towel. When I made that choice, verbalizing it, it changed my ability to torture myself with thoughts of death, hell or even minor heck. Take it one day at a time. Recognize you have made a choice in beliefs and be at peace. I'm sure there are other WAers who can give you their perspective. For now, good to meet you and I look forward to your posts.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Fermez ta bouche et mangez tes fritures de liberté.



"Unless we each conform,

Unless we obey orders,

Unless we follow our leaders blindly;

There is no possible way we can remain free."

Major Frank Burns



"People are like glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within."

-Elisabeth Kübler-Ross
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(Date Posted:07/16/2004 05:59:39)

Welcome, for me it felt like returning to the human race. The joy that I could be right that it was worth listening to other people and that no one had THE TRUTH. I don't htink of Christian and Secular scholars I just think of good scholarship and poor scholarship.

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There is no fire like hatred, no rushing river like craving, and no snare like illusion. Buddha



Random thoughts at

http://waynus.blogspot.com/
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