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phoenixgirl
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(Date Posted:07/10/2004 00:02:04)
Wow, welcome. It can't have been easy to leave your faith because it was your bread and butter too. Funny that it was teaching why the opposing views were "wrong" that broke the camel's back of your faith.
I can relate to feeling frustrated with how others views you. I feel like I was once Mother Teresa and now I'm Ted Bundy in the eyes of many Christians. It is difficult to accept that not all of them will accept you as you are. It's painful too.
Depending on how long it's been since you left the college and all, perhaps you are finding new friends who do accept you as you are without giving a rat's ass about your religion. Finding new people who did see the good in me helped me accept that some others weren't going to. But then of course there are those few Christians who do not see a contradiction with seeing you as the same person and keeping their own faith, which is also a relief.
So what are you doing now that you aren't a Bible college professor?
Welcome to the forum, and this is the place to vent when your former faith causes you pain or annoyance. We can all relate. 
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--Phoenixgirl
"I am influenced at the present time by far higher considerations and by a nobler idea of duty than I ever was when I held the Evangelical belief." George Eliot
"I have one great fear in my heart, that one day when they are turned to loving, they will find we are turned to hating." Alan Paton's Cry, the Beloved Country (I promise I read this before it was an Oprah book club book)
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Aspirin99
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(Date Posted:07/10/2004 00:45:27)
Thanks for the warm welcome, phoenixgirl. It's been a few years now since I left. It's all being brought back to the surface for me due to college reunions and family reunions. I since went back to school and got a business degree. I currently make my living doing a variety of things: mainly as a technical writer, but also as and computer programmer, multimedia specialist (I create Flash animations), website design, and I create marketing videos and do voiceovers.
My daughter is 14-yrs old, and she got into a debate at a family reunion last week about homosexuality. None of us are gay, but it angered her when she was told that her gay friends were "going to hell" because God said it was a sin. I realized that all she has no information to support her ideas on why she should or should not accept the Bible as a source of moral appeal. I want to gather information to help her know where to start without overwhelming her.
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phoenixgirl
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(Date Posted:07/10/2004 05:35:23)
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--Phoenixgirl
"I am influenced at the present time by far higher considerations and by a nobler idea of duty than I ever was when I held the Evangelical belief." George Eliot
"I have one great fear in my heart, that one day when they are turned to loving, they will find we are turned to hating." Alan Paton's Cry, the Beloved Country (I promise I read this before it was an Oprah book club book)
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paginity2
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(Date Posted:07/10/2004 08:39:33)
Welcome, Aspirin99. Wow, a bible college professor! Considering all the rules and regulations, no wonder you came to your senses. Sorry about the family and what they said to your daughter. Unfortunately the walk away is not one you can share with your entire family. There are a lot of good things in the Classic Archives and there's also infidels.org.
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Fermez ta bouche et mangez tes fritures de liberté.
"Unless we each conform,
Unless we obey orders,
Unless we follow our leaders blindly;
There is no possible way we can remain free."
Major Frank Burns
"People are like glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within."
-Elisabeth Kübler-Ross
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Questions
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(Date Posted:07/10/2004 09:33:53)
Reply to : phoenixgirl
It is difficult to accept that not all of them will accept you as you are. It's painful too.
From my experience in life, I rarely encountered someone who fully accepted me for what I am, except my Pet Dog ... Even some people who aren't "fundy" will have standards and expectations before they accept you. It seems that when you are in society : ideas, behaviors, goals tend to fuse together and people that share the same ideas, same goals will get together and expect the same thing from their "members". Somehow you have to be "part" of something, this varies to great extents depending on what " club ", "group", "company" you are in. The " image " seems very important in certain rings of people.
Reply to : Aspirin99
I since went back to school and got a business degree
I currently make my living doing a variety of things: mainly as a technical writer, but also as and computer programmer, multimedia specialist (I create Flash animations), website design, and I create marketing videos and do voiceovers.
It seems that now you have greatly expanded your activities. Please tell us how you feel now that you are exploring new opportunities. Do you feel more satisfied ? Do you feel more proud ? Do you feel more accomplishment ? It would be interesting to know about that. Do you still consider teaching on day: business classes perhaps, or giving private programming, multimedia courses ?
All I want to do is have them understand why I could not longer believe fundamentalism is true.
Is it really necessary ? What will you gain from this ? Why are those person still important for you ?
Because perhaps they are so indoctrinated that they will energetically refuse to understand, this might be a source of frustration for you and it might put you into a fragile position towards them. Let them just understand that you no longer believe. You don't have to prove anything to them in order to take position for yourself.
To speak in business language, I think it will be much more profitable to just let them know you no longer believe, if you try to persuade them to understand why you no longer believe, you won't get a profitable return on your efforts and if you try to persuade a lot of them, you might end up bankrupt.
You should not invest anymore time and efforts on them anymore. My advice is to just let them know you left, you don't owe them any explanation.
One person that will understand, however, is your daughter, you could share this with her and this will certainly be a source of mutual complicity.
Instead of trying to persuade all of them why you left, you should keep on persuading yourself why you left, you will gain much more satisfaction.
If they are bad company because of this, then perhaps you could rebuild your contacts with more approving relationships.
These people don't want to understand, so I would not adventure in trying to make them understand. There are much more profitable and relevant sources of satisfaction in life then this: efficient business partnerships, pleasant relationship with your daughter, professional accomplishment ...
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writergrl
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(Date Posted:07/10/2004 09:37:30)
Welcome Aspirin! I'm working towards a degree in technical writing, but I see it as a way to use my writing skills practically even though I'm not very interested in "technical" stuff per se. My university's degree plan is actually called "Professional Writing" and also includes publishing and editing which I may go into instead.
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phoenixgirl
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(Date Posted:07/10/2004 19:42:10)
Questions,
Rejection is something that is experienced almost universally when you walk away. People who had formerly accepted you as a "brother or sister in Christ" now hold you at arm's length. This is very painful when it happens with a great deal of your friends and family. It is different from simply meeting a new person and jiving or not with them. My best friend from college told me that I had never been a real Christian and that her relationship with Jesus prevented her from being friends with my anymore. People look at you with an expression like they're having gas and ask questions about how you could possibly have rejected the one true faith. And in Aspirin's case, he had to find a whole new career.
Wanting your former friends and family to understand you now is also pretty common. That doesn't mean that it's productive or right or will be successful, but it is very understandable and needs to be dealt with in its time.
Since you've never been a fundamentalist who walked away and experienced the subsequent fall out, perhaps you might want to read Marlene Winnell's Leaving the Fold. Remember that there is a process involving denial, anger, sadness, and acceptance whenever something is lost in one's life, and this process is valid and must be allowed to run its course.
Aspirin99, I also recommend this book to you. There are books about the unsoundness of the Christian faith and various people's reasons for rejecting it, but Winnell's book is one of the few that deals with what it is like to have been brainwashed and part of an "almost cult" as you put it, and then to turn your world upside down by rejecting those beliefs and starting over again. It's a great, great book, and it was very useful to me when I read it.
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--Phoenixgirl
"I am influenced at the present time by far higher considerations and by a nobler idea of duty than I ever was when I held the Evangelical belief." George Eliot
"I have one great fear in my heart, that one day when they are turned to loving, they will find we are turned to hating." Alan Paton's Cry, the Beloved Country (I promise I read this before it was an Oprah book club book)
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Aspirin99
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(Date Posted:07/10/2004 20:54:51)
Thanks for the resource links, pheonixgirl and paginity2.
Good luck with the writing, writergrl. For me, few things are more fulfilling than creative expression in my work. Writing provides that every day. If you can get paid for it, much the better.
Replying to Questions:
"It seems that now you have greatly expanded your activities. Please tell us how you feel now that you are exploring new opportunities. Do you feel more satisfied ? Do you feel more proud ? Do you feel more accomplishment ? It would be interesting to know about that. Do you still consider teaching on day: business classes perhaps, or giving private programming, multimedia courses ?"
I have always found a way to love life, regardless of those around me. However, you are right - without the oppression of the religious restrictions, life is better for me. As for teaching, I have spent a lot of time creating tutorials on actionscript programming. My love of creative expression has driven my to develop a variety of skills that bring fullfillment in my life.
I also have my own discussion forum where I help people with their technical questions, etc. I recently asked my friends on that forum if they would be interested in having a section of our forum devoted to this topic, but most were concerned that it would cause arguments that would divide exisiting friendships. I think they may be right.
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Shadowself
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(Date Posted:07/11/2004 05:39:22)
Hello, Aspirin99, and welcome to the show! It's great knowing that even a college bible class teacher can break out of the mind-control mold into freedom of thought.
You say you finally realized that you agreed with the devils advocate views you presented. What kind of examples did you give, that you eventually agreed with? I wonder if fundy colleges realize that even by allowing these views to be presented in a supposedly negative fashion, they are exposing xtians to an alternative viewpoint.
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A big revelation in my professional training was that humans can learn skills for living and relating. We don"t have to be desperate for a miracle of God to make us decent.--Marlene Winell
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