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Mark the Unsaved
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Registered: 02/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours

(Date Posted:02/09/2007 04:46:28)

Hello, everyone.I should not be here right now. You see, I am supposed to be writing lessons and coming up with creative things to teach my ESL (English as a Second Language) students, but I'm just not in the mood. After giving up on any attempt to be productive this evening, I am sitting here naked (No idea why!) surfing the Net for information on Christian cults. I came across this site semi-accidentally, having seen it a year and a half ago, and this evening I feel like talking about my Fundamentalist past... And here I am.?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comMy name isMark, and I am a 41-year-old gay Native New Yorker who has lived in?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comBrooklyn all his life.Here's hoping you find something interesting in my writing; I know without doubt that I will be mesmerized by much of what my fellow ex-Fundies write.I was raised as a conservative Presbyterian, not a Fundamentalist, and as a child I gave my heart and soul to my faith.Actually, my natural inclination even at ten years old was to be an atheist; however, the church instilled enough guilt and fear in me to prevent that. No sooner did I hit puberty that I realized I was attracted to men and would have to remain celibate to be loved by God. For this reason, I killed my capacity to love and be loved in order to be a loving Christian. To this day, it is hard for me to love and trust, as I have been hurt over and over in the name of Jesus and love. I have a couple of close gay friends whom I know I love dearly, but I have never been able to havethe typeof committed relationship I crave, that most of these gay friends have been in for more than ten years. It has in factbeen so long since I have had sex that I ain't admittin' the date. A couple of women have come on to me fairly recently, and I am so hungry for affection that I have been tempted... Hee hee...I would never do that to a woman--and it's the same with men. If it's sex without anything else, merely to get off, I won't toy withsomeone else'sfeelings or my own. I know that there are good gay men out there, but at my age the pickings are slim. Masturbation is psychological survival.As is usual for me, I am way off topic (even though I am the one who started the topic). Back to my religious past...There was a lot of hypocrisy in my racist church, and I did not know what to do about it.As a teen, I prayed for help and guidance...And suddenly a friend in high school introduced me to a Christian cult: The Worldwide Church of God (the late Herbert W. Armstrong's group based inPasadena).Believing that was God's answer to my prayer, I joined "the one true church" and shunned my Presbyterian family and roots. Involved with those nuts for a while and then seeing their own hypocrisy, I also triedother Fundamentalistgroupsandinternalized a lotofex-gay ideology.Finally, I gave it all up and became agnostic, eventually coming out of thecloset. Two years later I finally got laid.A few years ago, still agnostic, I decided that I wanted something spiritual in my life, and I joined GayChristian.net as an open agnostic.Although I made two good gay Christian friends there and am still in regular contact with them, I was treated terribly by many on the board.Some--definitely not all but too many--believed all gays had to be celibate and only Christians went to Heaven. ("I'm right and you're wrong" said a lesbian minister with a wife when I told her how offended I was by her idea that gays went to Heaven but unconvertedJews and Muslims did not.)Eventually, I posted about the hypocrisy I saw, and that caused me to butt heads with the board's butt of an owner.By that point, I had already gotten into trouble there many times.For example, there was a gay Mormon guy trying not to be gay and going on and on about how he masturbated and had lost touch with Christ because of it.I posted that masturbation was a necessary physiological and psychological release, then quoted information from sites where experts discussed how masturbation kept us healthy.I got hell for that (pun intended). Don't even get me started on evolution...It would have been all right for a real Christian inspired by Jesus to say something like that, it seems, but not me.I could go on, but I have a long-winded nature and must be brief here--and I admit to being too aggressive for my own good, anyway.It takes two to tango, and I usually sear the dance floor.At any rate, I was banned when I posted the owner's nasty e-mail to me on the board. It seems the message board had its own board that approved my removal. (Why the hell does a message board need a government?)On that day I became an atheist, and I still am.I consider myself a spiritual atheist, however, as I hold true to my morals and willingly do volunteer work because I consider it the right thing to do (not because some bully God demands brownie points). I actually have more Christians in my life than fellow atheists, and I treat them with the same respect with which I wish to be treated. However, while I respect the individual Christians who happen to be good people and have the right to believe what they wish, I don't pretend to respect the religion itself.I also have more heterosexual friends (both male and female--almost all of whom know that I am gay) than gay friends, but that is another story...Ironically, my mother is church secretary, and sometimes I proofread or even write things for her--including prayers. If only the Presbyterians knew who was writing the devotional words that come out of their mouths...Yes, I am going to hell for that. Of course,I am going to hell anyway merely for being gay, so I may as well have my fun while I can. Just ask most Christians if you don't believe me. I respect gay Christians in gay relationships who hold onto their faith and heterosexual Christians who treat them with love and say they are going to Heaven as they are, but it has been made clear to me by others that even if I were celibate and kept the Bible shoved so far up my ass that I would never need toilet paper, I would still go to hell based on my biology. I'd have to BECOME heterosexual to be saved, and, no matter what the ex-gay movement says, that is a physiological impossibility.Or I could be a good Catholic and be gay without committing "gay acts."Oy vey! It's a good thing I don't believe in hell.When I am not stoking the infernos with brimstone, I teach English as a Second Language at a university and spend far more time than I should helping foreign students with issues that extend beyond language acquisition. I am also a key presence on an OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) message board run, ironically enough, by a conservative Christian.There, I help a large number of heterosexuals, many of them Christian, deal with sexual issues related to OCD. I have been successfully treated for my own OCD, which used to be the living hell I experienced while still on earth and is in large part the real origin of my extremist religious views. I am also responsible for helping to take care of my parents, as they are both over 70 and have only my sister and me.On my own time, I devour science fiction books and movies and am a lifetimeStar Trekand comic bookfan. (Sci Fi, 'Trek, and comics are what kept me sane and prevented me from committing suicide during the worst of religious abuse, OCD, and being in the closet.) I have published a book on teaching ESL and am currently in the process offinishing book number two; I have also published some articles on super-hero comic books and, one day, will get around to writing something about Archie comics. Finally, I have learned to speak, read, and write Italian and French well, and I always welcome the opportunity to write to native speakers of either language.Sadly, though, since I don't have Jeeeeee-zus or the baaaaaah-buuuhl in my life, my accomplishments are nothing and I have no value.Anyone care to dance over hot coals with me? Bring your pitchfork!

--------------------------------------------------------------
Recovering from betrayal and abuse by Christians and extremist Christianity is a lifelong process.

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Mark the Unsaved
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1#



Registered: 02/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:02/09/2007 04:46:29)

Hello, everyone.

 

I should not be here right now.    You see, I am supposed to be writing lessons and coming up with creative things to teach my ESL (English as a Second Language) students, but I'm just not in the mood.  After giving up on any attempt to be productive this evening, I am sitting here naked (No idea why!) surfing the Net for information on Christian cults.  I came across this site semi-accidentally, having seen it a year and a half ago, and this evening I feel like talking about my Fundamentalist past...  And here I am. 

 

My name is Mark, and I am a 41-year-old gay Native New Yorker who has lived in Brooklyn all his life.  Here's hoping you find something interesting in my writing; I know without doubt that I will be mesmerized by much of what my fellow ex-Fundies write.

 

I was raised as a conservative Presbyterian, not a Fundamentalist, and as a child I gave my heart and soul to my faith.  Actually, my natural inclination even at ten years old was to be an atheist; however, the church instilled enough guilt and fear in me to prevent that.  No sooner did I hit puberty that I realized I was attracted to men and would have to remain celibate to be loved by God.  For this reason, I killed my capacity to love and be loved in order to be a loving Christian.  To this day, it is hard for me to love and trust, as I have been hurt over and over in the name of Jesus and love.  I have a couple of close gay friends whom I know I love dearly, but I have never been able to have the type of committed  relationship I crave, that most of these gay friends have been in for more than ten years.  It has in fact been so long since I have had sex that I ain't admittin' the date.  A couple of women have come on to me fairly recently, and I am so hungry for affection that I have been tempted...  Hee hee...

 

I would never do that to a woman--and it's the same with men.  If it's sex without anything else, merely to get off, I won't toy with someone else's feelings or my own. I know that there are good gay men out there, but at my age the pickings are slim.  Masturbation is psychological survival.

 

As is usual for me, I am way off topic (even though I am the one who started the topic).  Back to my religious past...

 

There was a lot of hypocrisy in my racist church, and I did not know what to do about it.  As a teen, I prayed for help and guidance...  And suddenly a friend in high school introduced me to a Christian cult: The Worldwide Church of God (the late Herbert W. Armstrong's group based in Pasadena).  Believing that was God's answer to my prayer, I joined "the one true church" and shunned my Presbyterian family and roots.  Involved with those nuts for a while and then seeing their own hypocrisy, I also tried other Fundamentalist groups and internalized a lot of ex-gay ideology.  Finally, I gave it all up and became agnostic, eventually coming out of the closet.  Two years later I finally got laid.    

 

A few years ago, still agnostic, I decided that I wanted something spiritual in my life, and I joined GayChristian.net as an open agnostic.  Although I made two good gay Christian friends there and am still in regular contact with them, I was treated terribly by many on the board.   Some--definitely not all but too many--believed all gays had to be celibate and only Christians went to Heaven.  ("I'm right and you're wrong" said a lesbian minister with a wife when I told her how offended I was by her idea that gays went to Heaven but unconverted Jews and Muslims did not.)  Eventually, I posted about the hypocrisy I saw, and that caused me to butt heads with the board's butt of an owner. 

 

By that point, I had already gotten into trouble there many times.  For example, there was a gay Mormon guy trying not to be gay and going on and on about how he masturbated and had lost touch with Christ because of it.  I posted that masturbation was a necessary physiological and psychological release, then quoted information from sites where experts discussed how masturbation kept us healthy.  I got hell for that (pun intended).  Don't even get me started on evolution...

 

It would have been all right for a real Christian inspired by Jesus to say something like that, it seems, but not me.  I could go on, but I have a long-winded nature and must be brief here--and I admit to being too aggressive for my own good, anyway.  It takes two to tango, and I usually sear the dance floor.  At any rate, I was banned when I posted the owner's nasty e-mail to me on the board.  It seems the message board had its own board that approved my removal.  (Why the hell does a message board need a government?)  On that day I became an atheist, and I still am. 

 

I consider myself a spiritual atheist, however, as I hold true to my morals and willingly do volunteer work because I consider it the right thing to do (not because some bully God demands brownie points).  I actually have more Christians in my life than fellow atheists, and I treat them with the same respect with which I wish to be treated.  However, while I respect the individual Christians who happen to be good people and have the right to believe what they wish, I don't pretend to respect the religion itself.

 

I also have more heterosexual friends (both male and female--almost all of whom know that I am gay) than gay friends, but that is another story...

 

Ironically, my mother is church secretary, and sometimes I proofread or even write things for her--including prayers.  If only the Presbyterians knew who was writing the devotional words that come out of their mouths... 

 

Yes, I am going to hell for that.    Of course, I am going to hell anyway merely for being gay, so I may as well have my fun while I can.  Just ask most Christians if you don't believe me.  I respect gay Christians in gay relationships who hold onto their faith and heterosexual Christians who treat them with love and say they are going to Heaven as they are, but it has been made clear to me by others that even if I were celibate and kept the Bible shoved so far up my ass that I would never need toilet paper, I would still go to hell based on my biology.  I'd have to BECOME heterosexual to be saved, and, no matter what the ex-gay movement says, that is a physiological impossibility.

 

Or I could be a good Catholic and be gay without committing "gay acts." 

 

Oy vey!  It's a good thing I don't believe in hell.

 

When I am not stoking the infernos with brimstone, I teach English as a Second Language at a university and spend far more time than I should helping foreign students with issues that extend beyond language acquisition.  I am also a key presence on an OCD (obsessive-compulsive disorder) message board run, ironically enough, by a conservative Christian. There, I help a large number of heterosexuals, many of them Christian, deal with sexual issues related to OCD.  I have been successfully treated for my own OCD, which used to be the living hell I experienced while still on earth and is in large part the real origin of my extremist religious views.  I am also responsible for helping to take care of my parents, as they are both over 70 and have only my sister and me. 

 

On my own time, I devour science fiction books and movies and am a lifetime Star Trek and comic book fan.  (Sci Fi, 'Trek, and comics are what kept me sane and prevented me from committing suicide during the worst of religious abuse, OCD, and being in the closet.)  I have published a book on teaching ESL and am currently in the process of finishing book number two; I have also published some articles on super-hero comic books and, one day, will get around to writing something about Archie comics.  Finally, I have learned to speak, read, and write Italian and French well, and I always welcome the opportunity to write to native speakers of either language.

 

Sadly, though, since I don't have Jeeeeee-zus or the baaaaaah-buuuhl in my life, my accomplishments are nothing and I have no value. 

 

Anyone care to dance over hot coals with me?  Bring your pitchfork!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Recovering from betrayal and abuse by Christians and extremist Christianity is a lifelong process.

Jezebel Rising
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2#



Rank:none
Score:0
Posts:338
Registered: 09/18/2005
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:02/09/2007 06:34:17)

I would like to congradulate you for weathering all the psychological assaults that were staged on you as a gay man in a fundamentalist Christian setting and finally breaking free. It is my utmost and dearest hope that you have finally reached the end of this long, torturous journey and have attained peace.

Welcome to the fourm, BTW. I think you'll like it here.

--------------------------------------------------------------
"I"m not a witch, but I wish I was. If I live I"d be a witch now after what they have done. I"ll burn their crops and kill their animals. I"ll stir up such storms. I"ll scatter their ships across the world. If I could meet with the devil right now, I would give him anything for power, for he is the only way to power for women in this world. I shouldn"t have been afraid of Ellen, I should have learnt. Oh, if I only had magic, I"d make them feel it."

Caryl Churchill, "Vinegar Tom"

"It might be the greatest thing ever invented, but if it"s invented, then it"s not worth dying for."

Taj Bachmann, former missionary

Shadowself
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3#



Registered: 01/16/2004
Time spent: 1773 hours


(Date Posted:02/09/2007 13:37:23)

Welcome Mark!  So glad to have you here; please contribute to the lively discussion going on throughout the board!  Let the dance commence!

--------------------------------------------------------------
A big revelation in my professional training was that humans can learn skills for living and relating. We don"t have to be desperate for a miracle of God to make us decent.--Marlene Winell

Mark the Unsaved
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4#



Registered: 02/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:02/09/2007 21:11:15)

Thank you, Shadowself and DarkHorse69.  You both have delightful screen names with a near Wiccan ring to them.  While I don't believe in Wicca any more than I believe in Christianity, I have a good friend who takes Wicca seriously and is currently training an acolyte in its mysteries.  My own Wiccan name, given me by this friend, is Argentium Starwalker.  The diminutive (which I chose) is Gent, hard "g" as in "go." 

@ Darkhorse69: I have just reread your welcoming words.  Very, very sweet!

@ Shadowself: Is it a slow dance or a punk slam? 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Recovering from betrayal and abuse by Christians and extremist Christianity is a lifelong process.

Cannot log in
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5#



Registered: 02/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:02/09/2007 21:38:33)

Help!  Can someone please ask a moderator to help me?

(It's Mark the Unsaved again.)

I can no longer access my Mark the Unsaved account.  When I saw that my profile was public, I tried to delete my e-mail address so others would not see it, but the board would not let me.  I then tried to change it to Ask_me_if_you_want_to@know.it, but that did not work either. 

Now, however, I cannot log in.  My password does not work, and when I try to have information sent to my correct address, the board says no one here has that address.  I also cannot contact the mods.

What do I do?

I want to be here, but if my real name and e-mail address are to be available for all to see, it would be better to delete my Mark the Unsaved account and this one.  I have gotten enough hateful e-mail from homophobic Fundamentalists to last a lifetime, and if the price for my being here is letting some more have access to me, it just is not worth it.

Voltaire
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6#



Rank:none
Score:0
Posts:1490
Registered: 07/08/2001
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:02/10/2007 00:27:19)

Help! Can someone please ask a moderator to help me?
It's Mark the Unsaved again.)


I can no longer access my Mark the Unsaved account. When I saw that my profile was public...




You do have the option of hiding your profile.



...I tried to delete my e-mail address so others would not see it, but the board would not let me.




You have to have an email address in your profile.



I then tried to change it to Ask_me_if_you_want_to@know.it, but that did not work either.




I checked your profile and it has been changed to "ask_me_if_you_want_to@know.it", without the uppercase A.



Now, however, I cannot log in. My password does not work, and when I try to have information sent to my correct address, the board says no one here has that address.




This is because your email did get changed and it's being sent to ask_me_if_you_want_to@know.it, which is in Italy.



I also cannot contact the mods.




I'm a mod; you have my attention.

If you can't log in then I think the problem is you have the wrong password because you profile is there and the email did get changed. Unfortunately I don't have the power to change your email or password. If you still can't get in, you can change your new "Cannot log in" handle to something similar to the old one like "Mark the Unsaved 2", "Mark of the Beast", or "Mark the Unslaved"?

--------------------------------------------------------------
Zombies, Unicorns, Devils, Sea Monsters, Satyrs, Dragons, Six Winged Angels, Gods, Demons, Witches, Astrologers, A walking & talking snake, Magical fruit, Talking donkeys, human headed six-winged beasts, Ghosts. All that stuff is in the Bible and yet they tell me it"s not mythology?

Cannot log in
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7#



Registered: 02/09/2007
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:02/10/2007 00:46:49)

Shadowself
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8#