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Shadowself
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01/16/2004
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(Date Posted:04/28/2006 09:01:59)
Welcome to Walk Away, Deb.
It is wonderful to discover that there are others out there who are traveling the same path. This was the first forum I ever joined; without it, I would know of very few people who had left fundamentalism behind. It helps to share experiences, problems, rants, and joys with other like-minded people.
I do hope things work out between your hubby and you. If he's moved away from the literalist position, perhaps he will be changing in other ways also?
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A big revelation in my professional training was that humans can learn skills for living and relating. We don"t have to be desperate for a miracle of God to make us decent.--Marlene Winell
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MothandRust
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From: Australia
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02/27/2004
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(Date Posted:04/30/2006 08:03:42)
Reply to : deb_70
Hi everyone,My name is Deb and I've been slowly converting out of Fundamentalism over the last two years or so.My journey started with doubts about women in ministry. I really wanted to do ministry, but I wasn't allowed. Then I had some doubts about the six-day creation. I picked up some books that were formerly "forbidden," not outright forbidden, but just labeled 'liberal' and therefore not worth reading. Then my journey began as slowly my old beliefs started to crumble.I still have a strong experienceof love for God, but it has been reshaped and strengthened. I guess I would consider myself more ofa mystic, which is very strange because I've always been a very logical postivist sort of person who didn't get into all that 'emotional' stuff.Basically now I am left with a deep resentment of Fundamentalists. When I got "s
Hi Deb, and welcome out of the rabbit hole and down another rabbit hole... there's so damn many.
The six day creation stuff would actually hold some water if only it wasn't the convoluted idiocy that it is... same goes for allowing women to teach. *Loons!* Sometimes I just like to name call... *ignoramases!* It's a turret syndrome thingy... *morons*
I know what you mean about the wasted years. I truly wan't interested in a career or building a real life on this planet because I was pretty sure the Lord was coming back pretty soon. I'd done the math and 1997 was the 80 years I was waiting for after 1917 blab blah bhah... *dickhead*
Oh, they'll irritate ya. I like to yell at them from a distance, on the net, but they irritate me way too much to actually live with them. I pretty much avoid spending any time with those crazy christians... and that feels great.
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MothRust
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deb_70
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04/27/2006
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(Date Posted:04/30/2006 20:35:11)
Thanks for your replies.
I do sometimes feel like I'm in another rabbit hole. This one is just a lot bigger!
I think that my husband is just becoming an atheist, which is much better than living with a strict fundie!
I never had the experience of waiting for Jesus to come back. I believed actually that he already did in AD 70. A heretical belief that kept me from being accepted into a lot of churches. I was reading a book the other day called _The Fundamentalist Phenomenon_ in which a lady is interviewing some people in a small town where a lot of nuclear devices are kept. She was very confused as to why the people kept saying they were really unconcerned about the nuclear stuff because Jesus would be coming back soon. She kept saying to them "But Jesus already came!" To top it off, this lady was Jewish!
Anyway, I see that I am apparently not the only one harboring anger and resentment. It is really like coming out of a cult, I think.
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Jezebel Rising
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(Date Posted:04/30/2006 22:08:29)
Reply to : deb_70
Thanks for your replies.I do sometimes feel like I'm in another rabbit hole. This one is just a lot bigger!I think that my husband is just becoming an atheist
I am so happy that you pulled the escape hatch on that hijacked flight and emerged intact! Homemaking is so destructive to a woman's self-estem and renders her powerless since she is deprived of an escape route if her husband becomes abusive. That's the underlying reason that fundies oppose reporductive rights; women will be too busy caring for babies and cannot establish themselves independantly, not to mention having so little time that they won't even realize they're being taken advantage of. I cannot convey to you how overjoyed I am that you're continuing your education and rading books that are actually based on fact. Speaking of which, have you read anything by the British playwright Caryle Chruchil? "Vinegar Tom", along with a Pat Benerar CD serves as the antidote to even the most misogynistic of fundy preachers. Simone de Bouvier's "the Second Sex" is a big help if you're in or a long read. And if you EVER feel tempted to go back, remember that Tertullian called us "the devils doorway" and blamed us for everything that went wrong in this world. "If there dwelt upon earth a faith as great as is the reward of faith which is expected in the heavens, no one of you at all, best beloved sisters, from the time that she had first "known the Lord," and learned (the truth) concerning her own (that is, woman's) condition, would have desired too gladsome (not to say too ostentatious) a style of dress; so as not rather to go about in humble garb, and rather to affect meanness of appearance, walking about as Eve mourning and repentant, in order that by every garb of penitence she might the more fully expiate that which she derives from Eve,--the ignominy, I mean, of the first sin, and the odium (attaching to her as the cause) of human perdition. "In pains and in anxieties dost thou bear (children), woman; and toward thine husband thy inclination, and he lords It over thee." And do you not know that you are (each) an Eve? The sentence of God on this sex of yours lives in this age: the guilt must of necessity live too. You are the devil's gateway: you are the unsealer of that (forbidden) tree: you are the first deserter of the divine law: you are she who persuaded him whom the devil was not valiant enough to attack. You destroyed so easily God's image, man. On account of your desert--that is, death--even the Son of God had to die. And do you think about adorning yourself over and above your tunics of skins?" Tertullian, "on the Apparel of Women" Congradualtions on your newfound freedom! And don't forget to check in and gives us updates about you journey!
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"I"m not a witch, but I wish I was. If I live I"d be a witch now after what they have done. I"ll burn their crops and kill their animals. I"ll stir up such storms. I"ll scatter their ships across the world. If I could meet with the devil right now, I would give him anything for power, for he is the only way to power for women in this world. I shouldn"t have been afraid of Ellen, I should have learnt. Oh, if I only had magic, I"d make them feel it."
Caryl Churchill, "Vinegar Tom"
"It might be the greatest thing ever invented, but if it"s invented, then it"s not worth dying for."
Taj Bachmann, former missionary
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deb_70
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(Date Posted:05/01/2006 17:56:52)
Do you think perhaps Tertullian had some difficulties with "lust of the eyes" and needed to find a really good reason to make women dress like frumpy peasants?
Freud would have a field day with him! If I believed what Tertullian said was true I think I would just shoot myself.
Thanks for the reading suggestions. That will give me some stuff to read over the summer.
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spitfire1979
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6# |
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08/17/2005
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(Date Posted:05/15/2006 21:44:30)
Hi Deb,
Thanks for sharing your story with such candor. I was homeschooled by my mom, a very amazing, smart woman who unfortunately got caught up in the anti-feminism of the church in the the early 80's and was influenced into believing that she absolutely could not live a fulfilled life by doing anything other than raising her kids. I'm glad she stayed home while we were school-age, but I regret that she felt she had to let the rest go... she never fit in with the other lazy ignorant homeschool moms at our church anyway... I saw the look on her face when she was around them, and she looked pained!
Here's my take on the marriage bit. Sounds like your husband is starting to develop beliefs on his own. Good. But it could still drive your family unit apart, unless you talk about it, your motivations, and understand that you are happy for each other, that you will still disagree on some things, but--- the rest of the world be damned--- you will enjoy your lives and your life together now no matter what. I am really happy for you and your classes... "catching up" with yourself. Family is still THE most important choice in the world, if you've already got it. You don't have to sacrifice your happiness for it... just set some new parameters. Change is scary for kids... but if you are happy, and they see you and your husband loving each other and having a good time, WOW. They can find out really fast that religion and "trying to get it all right" is NOT the way to a happy home. The key will be working together, I think.
I hope I don't come off as a know-it-all! But I see such potential, from what you've written, for your family to have a great new life and not have to lose each other over it. It's what I want for myself.... gues I'm projecting a bit. Best of luck to you!!!!
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deb_70
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7# |
Rank:none
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04/27/2006
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(Date Posted:05/16/2006 17:39:14)
Thanks for your encouraging comments. Your mom sounds like a wonderful lady. I've felt the same way about homeschooling parents myself. I figured if I was going to do it, I would have to be as educated as possible myself. I think a lot of women who do it just think their kids are going to be better off if they aren't in public school, and don't need to really learn that much.
I hope things work out with my husband, I would love to have the family stay together. Thanks for your encouragement. It helped a lot.
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