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Restless Pilgrim
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(Date Posted:02/14/2004 23:37:37)

I had a spell of fundamentalism for almost three years after having a fairly liberal Anglican upbringing. I joined an Australian Pentecostal group that had branches in the UK. For a while I had been looking around trying to rationalise my faith in God and look for a more authentic form of Christianity than what I was into. At the same time I was disgusted by the small mindedness of many fundamentalists I had come across and I was upset that Christianity was hijacked by these types of people. One of the things that attracted me to this group was that although they were extremely fundamental theologically, they seemed to be clear of the bigotted political outlook that many fundamentalists have. They also promised something very simple that seemed authentic because it appeared to span any cultural bias and even promised me an objective reason to believe in the power of God.This promise was the ability to speak in tongues, which was considered the immediate and exclusive evidence of having received the born again experience / the Holy Spirit infilling. Besides that the group were free from many charismatic excesses and reliance on subjective experience, so I was confident that after I had spoken out in tongues, this was the group I would spend the rest of my earthly time with. After a few weeks I had emotionally committed myself to the band of brothers and after a few months I was boldly splitting infinitives and going out on the street to share this particular gospel. I was aware of course, that this group would keep aloof from other denominations. It was rampantly anti-Catholic, anti-Protestant and highly critical of 'the crazy, mixed up world of Pentecost'. The church would also be highly critical of it's various splinter groups that essentially taught the same thing. In other words, it was complete separation. That was fine with me though, because I had already lost a lot of respect for most Christian denominations. Also in witnessing sessions with other Christians, I would challenge their entire basis for their faith (if it was not reliant on tongues) and that would show to me how superficial their beliefs were.Life inside the group was pretty good. I developed many good relationships with a lot of very interesting people from all over the world. I found it wonderful that such a diverse group of characters could be united around this one doctrine. Although the rules ('guidelines') were very, very strict (if you so much as touched a girl intimately, you were coerced into marriage!!), I respected them all as being synonymous with a good Christian walk and I felt that the rules were just for the weaker brethren who did not have enough personal vision to do them out of their own faith.I enjoyed many of the talks although I would often be highly suspicious of the motives behind some of the things said. There was a lot of pastoral politics, which naturally made everyone suspicious and the governing elders had to frequently battle against a gossipping culture. The problem was that there was so little accountability from the oversight. They reserved the right to excommunicate whom they saw fit and you never ask questions when God's on your side! I did get very discouraged by the many systematic problems in the church, but I tried to put this down to human frailty. The oversight were quick to applaud this attitude - that no matter how bad things may become, you can never have an excuse for leaving the assembly/thelord'schurch and doing this means you are forsaking the saints and wilfully sinning and are therefore doubly damned. Once again though, I had no inclination to leave as I found the church the best possible medium for me to work for God and to have a good time ('get blessed by him') as well.Things quickly happened in Summer 2003 though. I had probably mellowed a little by that stage after being very zealous before. By then I was very settled and I was less ready to debate the finer points of 1 Corinthians and the various contexts of tongueswith other Christians (we would not call them Christians until they became a tongues-talkers). This gave me a chance to look around the place with a more critical eye. Our church operated the 'utterance-gifts' that means we would have about five or ten minutes set aside for the spiritual gifts of tongues, interpretations and prophesy to be used. It became increasingly obvious that interpretations and prophecies, which were 'faith inspiring messages', were not really from the mouth of a God. Anyone can utter truisms or use bible verses and generally say something that encourages the community. At about the same time, I began to stop trying to mentally apologise to myself for some of the absurdities spoken from the platform. This all encouraged me to check where exactly I stand - to review my entire belief system as the Pastor indeed encouraged us to do from time to time. I wondered whether I could depend so much on speaking in tongues. Obviously I was inhibited from changing my beliefs because we were taught that to forsake tongues is tantamount to the unforgivable sin. I felt though that in a Pascalian sense, I was not really betting well, because at the same time I should be aware that my current stand on tongues is for many itself a damnable heresy. This concerned me a lot, because I still believed in the literal interpretation of the bible, which I was finding harder to make justify my current stance. Observing again, I noticed that some tongues were so ridiculously simple as compared to some utterances by non-Christians, which sounded more like the real thing. Still procrastinating, I found out about some of my friends in the youth wing who were covertly drinking and 'fornicating' (both ex-communicating offences). I was astonished that they had the nerve to do this with impunity,whilst still feeling able to belong to such a church. I then inspected myself and realised that I did not really believe in the central doctrine of the church, yet I was still a member - so I took this as my cue to exit stage left.I remained out for a few months until the Pastor convinced me to have another look and warmly invited me back with in/sincere apologies for the systematic faults in the church. I was back again for a week or two and realised I was slipping back into a very comfortable place without having my issues really addressed, or more disturbingly, noteven wanting them addressed. I had another internal review and realised that I had lost faith in another supposedly objective evidence of God - the bible. This pretty much secured my loss of belief in YHWH, so I announced my Atheism, even though at the time I was far from a positive Atheist.Over the months I have had the opportunity to reflect on my experience in fundamentalism and juxtapose this with my experience in a more liberal system. It has helped me understand a lot about Christianity in general and why people believe various things. I have come to understand that fundamentalism can be a very valid response to belief in God, but too many people are unable to properly consider their position in this kind of environment.All very interesting. I am actually glad that I had my experience in fundamentalism...But I am also very, very glad that I was able to leave when I did.

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redzed
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(Date Posted:02/15/2004 00:41:58)

Reply to : Herge Revisited

This promise was the ability to speak in tongues, which was considered the immediate and exclusive evidence of having received the born again experience / the Holy Spirit infilling. Besides that the group were free from many charismatic excesses and reliance on subjective experience, so I was confident that after I had spoken out in tongues, this was the group I would spend the rest of my earthly time with. After a few weeks I had emotionally committed myself to the band of brothers and after a few months I was boldly splitting infinitives and going out on the street to share this particular gospel. I was aware of course, that this group would keep aloof from other denominations. It was rampantly anti-Catholic, anti-Protestant and highly critical of 'the crazy, mixed up world of Pentecost'. The church would also be highly critical of it's various splinter groups that essentially taught the same thing. In other words, it was complete separation. That was fine with me though, because I had already lost a lot of respect for most Christian denominations. Also in witnessing sessions with other Christians, I would challenge their entire basis for their faith (if it was not reliant on tongues) and that would show to me how superficial their beliefs were.


I too had a look into the pentecostal style of xtianity, attended a tongue speaking church, three times.  I listened to the supposed talking in tongues, and came away unimpressed.  Even tho there sure was some energy in that church, it repelled me because it seemed a little unreal ... or delusional, something like that anyway, can't put my finger on it.  Or it may have been that by the third time i saw the legalism?

The thing that concerned the most about the tongue speakers was that elitist thing, the 'seperation' you mentioned.  Seemed to be at odds with the mooted original teaching of unity, and that pretty much applies ot all organised religions i've looked at, they all maintain some form of exclusivity, in dogma or culture.

Heard about an organisation in the early twentieth century, a group had become convinced of the coming of another great world teacher.  They eventually identified an individual and approached him to lead their organisation, he agreed and after some time they had a convention.  The chosen one stood to speak and stunned the audience by announcing the dissolution of the organisation.  He said words to the effect that they had been searching for a teacher, they had chosen him, and his message was that the time had passed where there was a need for such organisations as religions.  That was his message and if they truly believed him to be the teacher they would accept that, and accept that future spirituality would be of a more equananimous nature.

Good luck on your path, thanks for sharing

--------------------------------------------------------------
Albert Einstein: "A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe" a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us."

Namaste

Restless Pilgrim
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(Date Posted:02/15/2004 02:23:19)

Thanks for the reply redzed. Overall the group I was with was very legalistic. It was impressed on us that we had to be doing lots of good works to be judged a good worker when the Lord would return. To be fair, many members were not that legalistically minded and did the works they did purely out of their own faith in a book of James kind of way. However many more members (mainly the ones brought up in the group) were just aware of a series of DO's and DON'Ts. Many of these people did not even have a very good grasp of WHY they were doing what they were doing, they just knew what to do not to be put out of fellowship.

So you are Australian? The group I was with was the Revival Fellowship, a splinter group from the Revival Centres. They both originated in Australia and still have many branches out there. I wonder if it was this group you encountered. They are very different from other Penty groups like AOG, because they are very restrictive with the use of tongues and you do not find the spontaneous bursts of tongues in the meetings that you do in many other places.

 

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featheredserpent
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(Date Posted:02/15/2004 03:51:35)

Reply to : Herge Revisited

I had a spell of fundamentalism for almost three years after having a fairly liberal Anglican upbringing. I joined an Australian Pentecostal group that had branches in the UK. For a while I had been looking around trying to rationalise my faith in God and look for a more authentic form of Christianity than what I was into. At the same time I was disgusted by the small mindedness of many fundamentalists I had come across and I was upset that Christianity was hijacked by these types of people. One of the things that attracted me to this group was that although they were extremely fundamental theologically, they seemed to be clear of the bigotted political outlook that many fundamentalists have. They also promised something very simple that seemed authentic because it appeared to span any cultural bias and even promised me an objective reason to believe in the power of God

Well written Herge! Joke.....

'I had a spell of fundamentalism'... and joined an Australian Pentecostal group"...

what! do you mean they are not? Confused!!! And what the difference between fundamental theologically and fundmentalism.

Happy to see you here!

--------------------------------------------------------------
I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone.
H. L. Mencken

Restless Pilgrim
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(Date Posted:02/15/2004 06:04:16)

The three years in Revival Fellowship was my spell indeed.

Fundamentalism can cover quite a lot I suppose. Revivalists are certainly theologically fundamentalist eg. belief in bible infallibility. In being quite cultic they are also fundamentally minded in a broader sense perhaps, by seeing everything in black and white terms.

 

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I'm like a bad penny - I always turn up.

featheredserpent
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(Date Posted:02/15/2004 22:11:04)

Reply to : Herge Revisited

The three years in Revival Fellowship was my spell indeed.Fundamentalism can cover quite a lot I suppose. Revivalists are certainly theologically fundamentalist eg. belief in bible infallibility. In being quite cultic they are also fundamentally minded in a broader sense perhaps, by seeing everything in black and white terms.
Sorry Herge - I misunderstood the word 'spell' - silly me thought it meant time off rather than 'time'. What a twit!!! My excuse is that is so unbearably hot here in Brizvagas and has been for days - I'm sitting for too long at the computer. Thanks for your patience.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I believe in only one thing: liberty; but I do not believe in liberty enough to want to force it upon anyone.
H. L. Mencken

redzed
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(Date Posted:02/16/2004 12:43:56)

Reply to : snakechick

My excuse is that is so unbearably hot here in Brizvagas and has been for days
Yeah like trying to sleep in a sauna, or work inside a steam boiler!  What was it the new agie type scientists are saying?  Global warming?  Hole in the ozone layer?  And our beloved weather bureau is predicting worse to come! 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Albert Einstein: "A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe" a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us."

Namaste

Restless Pilgrim
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(Date Posted:02/16/2004 17:09:31)

Ha try living here for a few days and you'll long for those warm days back home.

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I'm like a bad penny - I always turn up.

clivedurdle
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(Date Posted:02/23/2004 20:33:07)

Hi

Welcome!

are you a tintin fan or something?

Following discussion I may or may not have been involved in I found fascinating, there have been other discussions here and on challenging atheism that I can't find

http://pub159.ezboard.com/fgwnnfrm12.showNextMessage?topicID=905.topic

--------------------------------------------------------------
Clive
The first tools on earth might have been developed by a loner sitting at the back of the cave, chipping at thousands of rocks to find the one that made the sharpest spear, while the neurotypicals chattered away in the firelight - unlikely - how did they work out how to light the fire!

Who understands does not preach;
Who preaches does not understand. Tao te ching

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