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Title: My VERY VERY LONG LONG LONG introduction (Better late than never, huh?! ;-)
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AthenaMarina
 Author    



Registered: 08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours

(Date Posted:08/23/2007 18:22:47)

This may well be more like a book! In fact, I think I will do it in chapters, but we'll see how it goes. You have been warned!!CHAPTER ONE: IN THE BEGINNING:In the beginning I was adopted at three weeks old into a Christian family and of course I believed that God had preordained this and I was called to be a Christian. I was also the granddaughter of a pastor, the pastor of our family's church. I was very close to his wife, my grandma, and it was she who convinced me - at the tender age of about five - that I desperately needed to "ask Jesus into my heart" so one night while she was babysitting me, I did so. My parents were NOT pleased as they thought I was too young! When I was nine, however, I made it public at my chuch, because I was so afraid if I didn't I would die and go to hell.Even as a young girl, people would sometimes ask me why I was so kind and so cheerful. I would always say it was because I was a Christian, as that's what I thought it was. I invited one of my friends to Sunday school but it just didn't seem to take with her.Most of my childhood is irrelevant to the rest of my story and I never questioned what I'd been told until much later. Annoyingly enough, whenever I bumped into Atheists all they would ever say was that what I believed was nonesense and they never ever gave me a single reason why. I think if I'd been given reasons I might have "walked away" a LOT sooner but as I didn't leave home till quite late in life, in a way I'm glad I didn't leave Christianity sooner because things may have been pretty stormy at home.The only real ways it affected me was that I was not allowed to go to my school social at 12 - I even tried to sneak off to it but got caught before even getting out the door - or my high school camps or my high school ball in my last year. I felt then, and still do, like I missed out on some great experiences as a result. I've still never been to a ball, for example.I believed in ghosts and I thought I used to see them. And I also believed that prayer drove them away. Now I have a different explanation.When I was about 14, I went through a very religious phase. I would read the Bible a lot and underline with a highlighter all the bits I liked. E.g. "For I know the plans I have for you," says the Lord. They are plans for good and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope." I also read "I will restore the years the locusts have eaten." Indeed these verses gave me hope for a bright future as a Christian, that God would guide me and give me a great and abundant life. And Heaven too!However, things were about to change.....

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
1# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/23/2007 18:37:16)

CHAPTER TWO: REBELLION

By the time I was 15 I started sort of rebelling against my parents.  I still believe they bought it upon themselves.  They split me up from my best friend for no real reason except that sometimes I didn't see eye to eye with my family and they thought my friend must be to blame and they even read my diary.  BIG MISTAKE!

I say, some people are like fire crackers when they get angry. They explode and then it's all over and done with.  Other people smoulder with resentment.  I am one of these! I became very bitter at my parents for their violation of my trust and for interfering in my friendship.  They even implied at one stage I might be gay!  (I'm not.  Not that it matters!)

So I wore a lot of make up (but then again, it WAS the 80s and I WAS a teenager!) and I got tipsy a couple of times although the first time was quite by accident! I and my friend were at a restaurant and I drank up the yummy juice with my fruit salad and started to giggle an awful lot! She soon figured out that I was tipsy and that the "juice" was actually Brandy! But once I drank some kind of alcohol at another friend's birthday party and went to school the next day feeling not drunk but a WEE bit wobbly! It may not have helped that I'd been "headbanging" to music the night before! I would hitch up my skirt at school and was quite cheeky to my teachers but only if they deserved it! I wasn't that bad a teenager really except that I also used to steal things. 

I even shop lifted - without getting caught - as well as stole things off my parents, my friend and from school.  I was angry and hurt.  But I DID return EVERYTHING even the pair of earrings to the shop.  Stealing WAS a temptation to me but it was also a way of saying Fuck you I'm angry, NEVER hurt me like that AGAIN! And - at 16 - I rededicated my life to Christ publically and told my parents what I'd done.

By the time I was 18, I went through another super religious stage that was more detrimental to me than the first one at 14.  But before that, and very shortly after I rededicated my life to "the Lord", something happened that later conflicted with my Christian upbringing and church's teachings.  Something happened that sowed some different kinds of seeds in me......

 

CHAPTER THREE: AN ALTERNATIVE OPTION:

I took Psychology in high school.  Yes, a lot of people pooh-pooh it, I know.  And of course there are some frauds out there! But in Psychology, we were told about Paradigms, including the paradigm of Humanism.  My parents were very into Behaviourism, without knowing what it was! They believed that children always end up like their parents.  I didn't like that idea. It seemed unfair and also - especially being a teenager! - I didn't exactly WANT to be just like my parents!  Humanisn offered an alternate viewpoint.  It said that we create our OWN realities.  My Psychology teacher didn't seem to like Humanism herself but I did.

However, remember, I'd been raised to believe - especially through my church! - that God was the one in control of my life and I didn't really have that much say about my future.  These teachings conflicted with humanism and in the end - well, for the short-term at least - they won the day.  And for a long time, they also stole my happiness too...........

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

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AthenaMarina
2# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/23/2007 18:54:10)

CHAPTER FOUR: THE WILL OF GOD SUCKS!

So that became more and more how I lived my life.  Believing that God had a plan for my life, whether I actually liked or wanted that plan or not.  And that to rally against it was futile. So although I choose my career without God's supposed help, in my first job I believed that there was a chance it could be God's will for me to lose my job.  Because I didn't KNOW what his will was supposed to entail! Only vague generalisations, nothing specific.  And of course I'd prayed about it.  That goes without saying!

But in church I'd heard about women who liked city life and modern comforts being sent to Africa as missionaries.  Even though it wasn't what they really wanted but that it was God's will.

Well, I was very nervous about possibly losing my job.  I won't blame it all on religion.  I think I can be a pretty neurotic individual and I worry way too much.  But I really don't think the religion helped AT ALL.  Especially not my church's version.

What made things WORSE was being constantly told there that bad times brought us close to God AND that good times brought us further away from him so we should never really get comfortable! To me that was like your life SHOULD be shit or you're not a good Christian! And of course, I'd been raised to believe that I SHOULD be a good Christian!

So, my nervousness at work ended up being a self-fufilling prophecy, I got laid off, made redundant.  I found somewhere else to work for a while but I went through another super religious stage at one point which I now really regret! I mean I told one fellow Christian she should stay with the man she married - even though he was miles too old for her and she'd only married him to get a visa and didn't love him and had found someone she DID love.  I also told someone who claimed to be a white witch that "Satan masquerades as a angel of light, the Bible says."  Now, I just wish I could say sorry.  But I don't know where they are.

I got into University and attended a Christian club.  I prayed, read the Bible and so on.  At one stage I was going to mid-week meetings too and youth groups. So at one point, when I turned 21, I was going to church up to seven times a week! Three on Sunday, sometimes four if I went to the prayer meeting! And four more times during the week, although two of those were to youth or young adults' group.

CHAPTER FIVE: PICKY AND CLICKY

I haven't talked about the social side yet, have I? I will discuss more later but for now I will just say, I never fitted into that church. Not with most people there my own age anyway.  And also that when I went to high school, from the age of 14 I was teased and treated badly by the Christian girls from my own church.  They were the bitchiest, cattiest group of girls I think I've EVER known.  Later on they appologised but still, the damage was done to my self-esteem.  And also, I used to think, you're supposed to be Christians! WHY isn't Jesus helping you be NICE? And yet the non-Christians were a lovely bunch. 

When it came to church there were these little clicks everywhere among the young people.  I don't know why.  The older people were lovely, actually.  Younger people literally would stand around in tiny circles and talk to their own group and that was it.  Others were lucky if they got a "hi."

I haven't even MENTIONED the dating thing yet!.......................................

TO BE CONTINUED! (For anyone who's got this far!) (Sorry it's so long but it feels great to get it all out!!! And I NEED to!)

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
3# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/23/2007 21:06:30)

CHAPTER SIX:   SEXISM, SEXUALITY AND SO CALLED DATING IN THE CHURCH

Dating! HA! What a JOKE! It was a matter of when you're 18, if you're a girl, the guy if he's 18 plus can ask the leaders of the church if he can date you. Date? HA! It consisted literally of sitting outside church and talking to each other exclusively where anyone could see you or talking on the phone or well actually that was about it! Once I was friendly with a my best friend's brother and there was NOTHING more to it than that on either side. One day we stayed at church for lunch on a Sunday - yes, people sometimes did that too! - and ended up sitting on the steps and chatting. People started to hassle us, tease us because they assumed we MUST be a couple! Well, that was the end of THAT blossoming friendship! It killed it!

There was a men's side and a women's side and you couldn't even sit together until you were at LEAST ENGAGED!! If you wanted to go out somewhere - according to my then best friend who was in a relationship that had been church-approved - you had to ask the leaders of the church first, who COULD say NO AND you had to have a REASON you could NOT just say decide to go ice skating as a couple or you risked getting in BIG trouble. (By the way, two cousins and my best friend married at 20 or younger.  All three marriages are now broken up now.  I wonder if they initially married partially to be able to freely date!) (Also, eventually the church found out that members of the youth group were meeting at a burger bar - including me! - and they banned us all from that or any other similar thing! Even though sometimes say guys would go there in a little group, not knowing there would be girls there from the church and vice versa - the food was GREAT for fuck's sake!  It wasn't planned, just a BONUS if some cuties happened to show up!

Speaking of ice skating and BIG TROUBLE, once I got MYSELF in big trouble.  I wanted to follow Christian Rock group Petra's advice and take the "message back to the streets." So I joined the church's street witnessing group.  My intentions were good but I WAS "misunderstood."  BIG time! Me and another friend got chatting to a fellow Christian from a different church during a witnessing session who asked us if we wanted to go to Micky D's and get some ice cream sundaes. So, off we went. He was very cute, Christian - even wanted to be a pastor - and most people like ice cream! Well, turned out he and I liked each other and got each other's phone numbers. We chatted on the phone and he wanted me to go with him to a CHRISTIAN skating event.

Turned out I got in trouble for it.  It may have been a fellow Christian colleague at work who was six cans short of a six pack anyways but SOMEBODY told the leader of the street witnessing group about this potential relationship.  The next thing I knew I was being grilled about it by him and ALSO he, the friend who'd also had sundaes with and six cans short of a six pack were all telling me to "Be careful. He comes from a different church." Like that made him some kind of a MONSTER or something!

Next time I went with the witnessing group, Mr Wiggly Ears, the leader of the group, was on me like a HAWK! If a guy so much as TALKED to me - which I saw as a witnessing opportunity - he would quickly call me away, sharply.  Needless to say, I felt like I was being babied, like my good intentions were being misunderstood and I soon left the group! I went there with the best reasons - to witness to the lost - and ended up meeting someone nice. I didn't plan it that way, like everyone seemed to think! Anyway, I never went out with that guy to the Christian skate or anything, although sometimes after I used to wish I had and wonder what it would have been like to go on a real date!

As I grew up in the church and as I got more educated and learned about sexism and hidden curriculums and so on, I realised my church was actually very sexist in some ways!

For example, to camps we were told "Women bring some food and men bring a dessert or a drink." It was assumed that WE would cook, not THEM. And for years and years only the women would be put on a rota to clean the cups from youth group.  And there was even a song when I was a wee one about doing it all for Jesus that went something like this: "In the house and out of doors, chopping wood and scrubbing floors something something something else stereotypical too, these are things that BOYS can do.  I'll do it all for Jesus, he's done so much for me.  ...Washing plates and scrubbing floors, washing, ironing darning too these are things that GIRLS can do.  I'll do it all for Jesus, he's done so much for me."

It was pretty clear about what the church thought women should be doing! By the way, a friend of mine and I saw a big double standard in that while there were whole sermons on why girls in the church should not wear a short skirt! NOTHING was EVER said about the guy who liked to wear VERY short shorts to the Sunday School Picnic. He looked great in them but that's NOT the POINT!

On the subject of clothes by the way, we HAD to wear hats.  (Not in youth groups but all other services.) Us women. As a sign of submission to men. ALL men.  It didn't matter if we were married or single. I HATED hats. They made my head itchy. The flattened my hairstyles. They DID NOT flatter me.  And I did not like what this hat wearing represented! AND we were NOT allowed jeans or trousers or shorts!!! Once in the choir we wore these very classy trousers. They were not at all tight, in fact they were quite loose, without being baggy. And yet some people in the church apparently complained! So it was back to skirts and dresses for us! Even though a man - the choir director, who was a lovely person, had also agreed with it!

By the way, just in case you haven't guessed, ALL of the leaders of the church and people who spoke were men! I think literally ONCE they had a woman speak and that was IT! And that was only in my more recent years there, she spoke one time.  The rest of the time, we always listened to men. Women could speak at the youth group but of course men ran it.

One good thing about my church is I never got the whole women MUST get married and have babies thing from them. For which I'm TRUELY grateful! Although most women seemed to aspire to this. I knew a friend of a friend who went through serious clinical depression mainly because no men chose her and she was in her 30s.  And as you can see, the preference was certainly a man in the church and DEFINATELY ONLY a Christian!

Muslims were bad. ANY other religion was bad - in fact, it was SATANIC! Gays were bad and I admit I was one of many church members who signed a petition against more freedom for gays. I was 18. I didn't know better and the church basically implied that they would corrupt everyone especially the young. So I signed and now, of course, I regret it. I wish I hadn't. But I did NOT KNOW ANY better, noone in my whole life had ever told me.  There were no books about it, that I knew of, nothing said at school and no internet in those days. So I thought I was helping to do a good deed!

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
4# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/23/2007 21:56:18)

CHAPTER SEVEN:  QUESTIONING AND WALKING AWAY FROM THE CHURCH:

Two significant things happened to me in my 20s that changed things.  The first of these was that I started to question the church.  One of my best friends and I both began to find things about our church we didn't like. It all began on my 20th birthday. No, actually on New Year's Day when I was 20.  It was a Sunday so there was a sermon that day at church.  New Year's Day! I was feeling - like many people do - optimistic and cheerful about it being New Year's Day. A new year, with so much potential for being better than the last! I guess I expected a positive service, being that it was New Year's Day.

And yet they rained negativity on us. Be careful, the Devil is lurking! Beware of Temptation! And THAT was the GOOD news!

For the rest of the year, sermons seemed to get progressively more boring and depressing.  And me and my friends felt less and less like we fitted in to the church.  And less and less happy being there at all.

Our church used to preach against (among other things!) what it referred to as a "health and wealth gospel." Hey, I used to think, bring it ON! I'LL take a "health and wealth gospel" ANY day over your doom and gloom one!!

Looking back I also notice a pattern - that most of my life I have chosen those with a cheeky or rebellious side to befriend.  Not really rebellious sometimes but you know with a bit of a naughty side, or at least, those who questioned things.  Who at least privately liked to challenge - or at least make fun of - the status quo.

However, when I went through the second super-religious phase I had a friend who was super-religious too I guess. We would spend a lot of time talking about how there were hidden bad things in a range of music, movies and so on.  Until she said that was too depressing - and she was right. Of course it goes without saying that I foolishly believed the nonesense about non-Christian music being evil at that stage and I burned my non Christian tapes.  I regretted it later on and I've never yet replaced one of them. 

Anyway, by the time I was 22 or before, I had totally had enough of the church.  My friend who had agreed it was boring and depressing had left, as has my other best friend there.  They were experimenting with drugs and I didn't want to go that road.  Not because of the church! But becaue in my early teens I chose to do a project on drugs and found out so much information about their bad side effects.  I didn't want to go to that church anymore.  I'd had enough of the clicks, and almost every time I went to church I was lucky if a single person said hello to me.  They were too busy with their own little group to care. Sometimes people would talk about missionary work, which I never had felt "called" to but I used to think, hey, what about tending to your OWN "flock" now and then! You know it's like people thought, she's ALREADY saved, what do we need to talk to HER for?!

So I think I faked sickness a couple of times.  Then one night my dad and or mum were going on about people who leave the church because they want "a lower sandard." Cos that's the lie we were told, by the way, people only leave the church because they want a "lower standard."

And then I blew it! Without thinking I blurted out "That's not true! People don't always leave because they want a lower standard! That's not why I want to leave!"

I'd said it! I hadn't meant to but it was out and I couldn't take it back!

Initially mum and dad were shocked but soon mum said if I didn't want to go to their church, I needed to find one of my own. She took it very well being that her father had founded the church and used to be the pastor there!

I TRIED to find a church for me, BELIEVE ME, I TRIED! I just couldn't find ANYWHERE I liked! At one church I loved the music - we used to have those horrible screechy hymns that are like 200 years old or else things called choruses which often had lines repeated over and over with some people swaying back and forth by rocking on the balls of their feet very slowly and subtly which I always found mighty weird.  On that line, I noticed when some people prayed out loud it sounded more like they were talking to a two year old! It sounded a lot like baby talk with the tone they used!

ANYWAY! At one church I loved the music. It wasn't far from where I lived, they had gosple music which I like a lot and the services were positive and very good. But their youth group or young adults group was a DIFFERENT matter! The people seemed kinda odd and well, sorry to say it but BORING!

At another church, a friend of mine who was also church hunting and I attended a few times, the opposite was true. The young adults group was wonderful and so were the people. But it was quite far away and the services and songs were incredibly mind-numbingly BORING!

At yet another one (I TOLD you TRIED!) I liked the service and pastor but later on I asked someone who to talk to about the young adults group or youth group.  They pointed to a boy who they said was the oldest member of that. "How old are you?" I asked him. "I'm 13." he replied. "Hmm, I'm 23." Said I. Realising there were obviously a lack of young people in my age range at this church!

Finally I thought I'd found my niche. The pastor was lovely, so were the services, they mixed with other churches which I thought was excellent, we even went out on a boat once and had a candle light meet up at the beach another. I even would sing in the choir and they sometimes had a woman leading the service who was also a very good speaker, very interesting..BUT......

Three things! The old pastor got promoted to a different position - I TOLD you he was GOOD! - and a new one came and I found his sermons incredibly dull and to be frank pretty pointless!

Secondly, there was C and his Bible study group.  I found myself often debating with C about things in the Bible which shocked even myself! I found I just didn't believe in some things there or thought they were not always appropriate to all situations.  I think I used to annoy C.  It wasn't intentional!

I was one of these Christians who actually read the bible cover to cover - at least once, maybe several times.  And when I went through the first of my super-religious times at 15 I read the bible right through and found quite a bit I didn't like. But I reasoned that it was either old testiment stuff or that it was only metaphorical.  And then, after reading the thing through I returned only to those parts I actually LIKED, the feel good parts, of course!

Thirdly, there was P. 

P and I met at a Christian camp which in itself was fun and had some good bands and we started off as friends.  I would just like to interject here that Christian band camps, for lack of a better word, were wonderful!!! I mean, I've never been a big drinker or smoker.  It was like a summer band camp - Glastonbury, that sort of thing - without the crappy toilets or excessive smoking and drinking! So I LOVED it! And I even slept on the stage once because I had no place to put a tent.  It was cold and I didn't sleep much but it was amazing to think that only a couple of hours before bands had played on that stage! I didn't like the band that sang about "Breakfast in Hell" though. At ALL! I mean, people were singing along and moshing to it (this WAS the 90s!) And the lyrics were about people going to hell?!! HELLO?! So I really DIDN'T like that song! 

Anyway, back to P! So initially we were friends. We got chatting at one of these camps, but he also went to my new church, where I'd now been going for several months. In a moment of weakness, feeling sorry for P bawling his virtually lashless eyes out because I wouldn't go out with him I kissed him. Fool me, I know! We were an item for literally a week, if that. You see, I soon found out that P had PROBLEMS! BIG PROBLEMS! One day I was on the phone with P and he said his mum and dad were angry with him. I asked why and he said he had cut up the hose! When I asked why he'd done that he said he was angry. I asked why he'd been angry and he said he didn't know! He also admitted to throwing his father against the wall, simply cos he'd told him to turn the music down!  And he admitted that his cousin was diagnosed as mentally ill and he wondered if he might be too. (Ya THINK?!) ANYWAY I soon became afraid of P, afraid he might turn on ME! But how could I avoid him? He went to my church. Simple, I stopped going, terrified of a confrontation.  I also stopped asking the phone for at least a month - no caller ID - worried it might be HIM.

So instead of going to church I spent my Sundays usually going driving in my car.  I would often go to a beautiful beach area, sit on a near horizontal thick tree branch and think.  And what I sometimes thought about - apart from how lovely it was - was what in the WORLD was I going to do about my love life and the non-Christians in it! Because......

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
5# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/24/2007 00:06:04)

CHAPTER EIGHT: SECRETS AND LIES, MY LOVELIFE

Like I said, two significant things happened to me in my 20s that changed things.  The first of these was that I started to question the church. 

The second was that I started to have a love life (FINALLY!)

Mainly consisting of NON Christians.

 

My first boyfriend WAS a Christian.  He was cute too and sometimes funny.  He gave me a cross necklace.

He was also incredibly unaffectionate and liked to ignore me, which would often cause me to shout at him to try and get his attention so, as you can imagine, we DIDN'T last long!

Even before we broke up, but when I knew we were on the rocks, I'd fallen in love.

With someone else.

Someone who looked a LOT like the man of my dreams.

And who was most definately NOT a Christian!

Well, one day I went out with him or maybe a few times but it didn't take long to find out that he already HAD a girlfriend! Maybe even a fiance! So of course I wasn't having THAT! But it took about three years to get him totally out of my mind and heart cos I'd fallen head over heels in love for the first time in my life.  He was just the first. I dated a few guys in their 20s.  It got so that I would be six months without a boyfriend and I would get over whoever and think I could now be a good little Christian girl and then some TOTAL HONEY would charm me like crazy and ask me out and he was ALWAYS too good to say no too!

And it WASN'T like ANYTHING was happening with CHRISTIAN guys, even though I tried a penpal group, Christian personals, a Christian singles group AND a Christian dating site! NADA! I had some dates with some guys from that but they always liked me and I never was attracted to them.  In looks OR personality! (Or lack thereof!)  And I found some of them very old-fashioned. In a BAD way!  Like there was this ugly guy who said he had helped run some workshop on waiting to have sex till you were married. And I'm sorry but my first thought was WHO'D want to have sex with YOU?!  But instead I found myself arguing "What if people wait and wait and they never GET married?" Cos I actually KNEW people - men AND women - like that! I even knew men in their 40s at my ex church who were still single and as far as I knew, virgins.  And I WASN'T keen on being one of THOSE!

Then there was T.  He was Christian, gorgeous, intelligent, super sexy and he liked me back! And then, by the second date I'd found out he was also temperamental and didn't care about MY wants! Such a shame! Then there was D, who lied on the phone about things like his hair colour, body etc. and was ALSO temperamental - in fact, I spoke very agressively for MOST of our date - lucky it was a double date so the other 3 of us ditched HIM as soon as possible and went off for ice cream! Then there was R who came onto me in the creepiest way, even though I'd told him a million times I only wanted to be friends.  Then there was the jerk on the internet who answered my personal add demanding why I didn't want kids and sending me more and more agressive nasty emails about how I SHOULD!

Then there were the Christian guys I really liked who DIDN'T like me.  The underage night club owner who was super cool, gorgeous, flirted with everyone, The cool, cute Cornish guy from a different city who made me laugh.  I mean, they liked me as a FRIEND alright, but not even a close one. 

Yes, I had high standards with the kind of guys I wanted. But why not? The non-Christians who liked me met them!

Sex didn't happen till I was 25.  Not that it matters, really, but I WAS in a relationship and we'd been together for maybe nine months.  Of course, I REALLY LIKED him.  Gorgeous, sexy, intelligent, funny and so on.  And our relationship started off SO well! We'd also been best friends for at least a year before that but he'd been seeing someone else.  An incredibly jealous someone else who hated my guts.  Maybe because I was (then!) slim and she was NOT!  I was nothing but nice to her and she was nothing but a BITCH to ME!  There were four reasons I finally had sex (guys had been asking me since I was 21)

The first, obviously, was that I really liked him, but it wasn't like I didn't like the guys BEFORE him!

The second reason was that I decided one day to write down a "creed" of what believed and while most of my beliefs were still the same, when I went to write down I don't believe in having sex outside of marriage, I couldn't write it and I soon realised it was because I DIDN'T agree with that any more!

The third reason was one day my aunty told me about this good little Christian virgin who was "saving herself" for marriage and then she'd been gang raped!

I thought FUCK THAT! I am NOT going to save myself for marriage just to have someone rape me!  What's the POINT?! WHY wait if THAT can happen?

And the fourth reason was that one day he said the magic words:

"Well, you can wait till you are married to have sex. That's your decision.  You'll probably get married at 30 or 40, but that's OK."

I thought, FUCK THAT! I am NOT going to be one of those 40 year old virgins!!!

I call this chapter secrets and lies because I kind of had to live a secret life, lying to my parents about where I was, who I was with and what I was doing. Although, anytime I DID get caught, my mum soon burried her head straight back in the sand again. 

At one stage she found out I was sexually active. I don't know HOW and frankly I don't WANT to! She cried, so upset.  I said "Mum! I have turned down 30 guys!" She replied tearfully, "Why couldn't you have made it 31?!" I thought that was being unreasonable!

I had a friend who she liked though.  I never COULD decide whether she'd feel better and worse about us hanging out if she knew he was gay!

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
6# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/24/2007 00:23:00)

CHAPTER NINE: THE FAG-FRIENDLY BABE:

K was my first gay friend.  I didn't know he was gay when I met him or we started hanging out but by the time he actually TOLD me he was gay, we'd had some fun moments together.  Like singing together - he had a GREAT voice! - while he played his keyboard or dressing up for his party.  He was so cute and so funny!

I guess K was the first gay person I REALLY got to know.  Except I had a friend that people later said was gay who was a nice guy too.  And there was another guy at church me and a friend used to chat to who was friendly and would make us laugh and later people said he'd left cos he was gay.  Maybe. Maybe not.

But this taught me, gays weren't out to hurt ANYONE! That was lesson number one for someone who'd been told in church that being gay was a bad bad thing and would corrupt other people.  I wasn't corrupted! I just had FUN!

When I was 26 I walked into a kareoke bar and loved it so much I went back! Many times!  I soon got chatting to this gay guy who I had a lot in common with.  Well, initially we hit it off and we do have a lot in common and became friends but he can be also bitchy and manipulative.  But his friend and his friend's friends were a different story.  We got on very well, and yes I've danced a few times in a gay club with them, even shared a bed with one of them and I've also shared a cocktail with a drag queen and seen some drag queens in action.

We may live in different countries but are still best friends today!

But when they jokingly said I was their "fag hag" I immediately corrected them. "I'm no hag! I think I prefer to be referred to as 'A Fag-Friendly Babe.'

The reason I brought this up is I soon realised how wrong my church was to try to restrict the freedom of gays when really they don't (usually) hurt ANYONE and some of them are a hell of a lot of fun!!   I didn't like the verses in the bible against gays either.   WHY would God punish people like my friends?!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
7# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/24/2007 01:07:46)

CHAPTER TEN: BREAKING MY OWN HEART, TEARS OF A CLOWN:

I know I've talked about my love life but what I haven't added it all the heartache that came with it. 

You see, I often ended up either breaking up with my boyfriends or sabotaging relationships because they weren't Christians and I felt guilty.  And with every breakup I felt so upset and cried so much.  It took a while for me to heal every single time. 

There was one guy who I also fell in love with that was an atheist and I never told him WHY I was breaking up with him because of his feelings  about Christianity.  I know he thought I didn't love him or didn't care about him and that wasn't true at all, because I did, SO much.  And I never got to tell him the truth. 

(To be continued, believe it or not I'm STILL not finished yet!!!) (Bloody 'ell!) 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
8# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/25/2007 14:18:17)

CHAPTER ELEVEN: THE BOOK THAT WASN'T:

I started writing a book. 

It was a work of fiction.  It was set in the 80s, because I happen to love that era but of course it may it harder to write as I had to try to do "research" to ensure aspects of the story matched the era, right down to the songs playing on the radio during one scene!

Basically my story was about a group of youths who grew up in the church, raised as Christians.  However, I decided, by the end of my story, some of the characters would have found a real peace and comfort through the church and religion and some of them would only have found the same peace and comfort through leaving it. 

Obviously that story echoed my questioning what I had been told - that Christianity was the ONLY way to find and keep happiness.  I started to seriously doubt that premise.  I'd been told by people's testimonies that Jesus had filled an "emptiness", that they'd felt "something missing" before they became a Christian.

So why then did I, I wondered, STILL feel like something was missing in my life and such an emptiness inside?  Why was I so restless, like a caged Lion pacing back in forth in his cage and longing to be free?

I never finished the story. I'm not saying I never will, maybe one day.

Why didn't I finish it?

One reason was because I got a new computer given to me and my work was on the old one.  I still had a 15 chapter draft but it would have still meant writing at least five chapters over again from scratch.

Another reason was I knew my book could be considered controversial.  I mean, it was neither fully condoning nor condemning Christianity.  Rather it was saying that it is a good option for some people and not for others.  A message which I knew some people would not accept. 

I was also afraid of rejection - what if noone wanted to publish my book after all my hard work? But there was a final, chilling reason why I stopped writing the book that wasn't.....

In my book there was a scene about a girl called Hazel.

Hazel had never fitted in with most of the people in her church - which was how I'd often felt.  Like Hazel I'd left many a church meeting driving home, crying in my car from the isolation and loneliness.

Hazel's "solution" to her problem was something I'd seriously considered, but never followed through. I'd considered it due to the loneliness, the broken hearts and the fears of Armageddon coming. Of not knowing what the Mark of the Beast would be and thus either going to hell or facing possibly torture, rape or even living in a cave, hiding. When you like your modern comforts and conveniences as I do, even hiding in a cave afraid for your life is bad enough!! Every time life became more automated I was led by my church to believe the new technology - credit cards, money-dispensing machines or even the internet itself - could be Big Brother and the Mark of the Beast and that persecution could soon follow and REALLY fuck up my life, just because of my religious beliefs.  I often lived in fear.

As I result I had contemplated suicide but never followed through with it.

Hazel followed through with it, she took a knife one day and slashed her wrists, unable to bear the pain any longer.  Hazel was me in a way, in an alternative reality, one in which I followed through with my chosen method of ending it all.  I wrote about Hazel's suicide in great detail and went on to write about how the tragedy affected her friends.  Like me Hazel had rejected counselling as she was told - like me - the counselling was not an option.  My pastor had condemned it railing that "JESUS is the ONLY counsellor!" Even "Christian counselling" was derided.  "Self-esteem" was also sneered at by both my church and Hazel's. Remember, I'd grown up with songs such as the one telling me to put "Jesus first, MYSELF LAST and others in between" and that that spelled JOY.  It was a lie, I became a "doormat", a "pushover" a bit of a martyr and desperately unhappy being so.  I soon realised that if my own well was empty, I had nothing to give anyone else, let alone joy!

And then one day, not long after writing about Hazel, something really scary happened in real life - that part of my story almost came true!.......................

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
9# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/28/2007 18:45:20)

CHAPTER TWELVE: THE NIGHT FROM HELL

 

Now my BROTHER was a DIFFERENT story! From about 15 to about 23 he was a NIGHTMARE to live with - in fact they kicked him out at 20. He became a father at 20 by the way but the girl kept the baby and denied him any custody for a while.
He used to be an alcoholic and drug user - including hard drugs. He jumped off the roof of something once and broke his arm while drunk. Another time the hospital thought he had gout! And within five minutes of him being back in the house, there would be a shouting row with him and my folks. He told dad once "I hope you have a horrible father's day. I HATE you dad." and he a few times called mum a bitch to her face! And like I've said he smashed her perfume bottles against their bedroom door and screamed at her once when she wouldn't listen to his crap and shut and locked the door!
But the WORST was when he slashed his wrists in front of our faces one night. He got angry cos of the custody thing and cos his then (different from baby mum) girlfriend couldn't stay the night. So after slaming himself into the wall and screaming, that's what he did with a kitchen knife.
It was the most horrible night of my LIFE!
And it took me a while to really get over.
I'm sure it was no picnic for my parents either!
Well, he didn't die and I don't think if it was a suicide attempt he would have gone so public when we could have stopped him.

 

But when he was slamming his body against the wall and yelling, I thought perhaps he was demon-possessed.  So I tried to cast "it" out.  But all that happened was my brother snarled at me in a deep, angry voice "WHAT did you SAY?" before marching off into the kitchen..

 

I wondered why I couldn't cast that demon out in the name of Jesus Christ.....

 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
10# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/28/2007 19:09:03)

CHAPTER THIRTEEN: NEW COUNTRY, NEW HUSBAND AND THE BABY THAT WASN'T:

 

Later on I moved to live and work in another country. 

I know some people talk of "finding themselves" but for me the process happened rather late in life.

I soon got to know people from a variety of non Christian backgrounds, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists and Agnostics and they - like the Christians I got to know and work with - also wanted a peaceful life. 

 

I was actually surprised to find this out because of the things I'd been told, especially about Muslims. 

 

One day I ended up meeting this gorgeous Egyptian guy who loaned me his cell phone when mine wouldn't work.  His friend turned up and we all went out for coffees and had a wonderful chat and some laughs and made arrangements to meet up again.  But the next time the friend had to work and before I knew it, me and the first guy I'd met were kissing. 

 

We dated but then I broke up with him, thinking we weren't compatible.  I dated another guy who seemed to promise me the world but in the end failed to deliver!

I was between jobs, in a country far from home, rapidly running low on money and pretty bored.  He seemed to offer some kind of security.  However, I made a stupid mistake.  I got pregnant.

 

Well I talked to my ex boyfriend from my home country on the phone and I also talked to the Egyptian guy, who I was still friends with.  Both of them suggested I could get an abortion. 

 

I don't regret getting the abortion but I do regret getting pregnant to a guy I didn't even love when I didn't even want to get pregnant at all. 

 

But there we go, there is - as far as I know - no time machine that will take me there and help me undo what I did.  To be fair, I had no idea how to get the morning after pill in this country so new to me.  Still..!

 

The "father to be" didn't want to know and denied it could possibly be his.  I knew it was his, I'd worked out the dates.  He gave me no money towards the abortion (I went private, to speed things up) and he wouldn't accompany me to the consultation. 

 

I didn't get the abortion flippantly, au contraire I really thought about it. I was encouraged by the counsellor to write down all the pros and cons of having this baby and I found myself with pages and pages of cons and very little pros.

 

What surprised me was that the Egyptian guy was more supportive than the guy who had impregnated me.  He was there for me whenever I needed to talk about the whole sorry situation and he even cheered me up.  I saw a new side to him I'd never seen before.  It also surprised me to see a Muslim that seemed to be pro-choice!

 

We kept hanging out and later on I noticed I'd get jealous if he talked about other women! Eventually I blurted out "I love you too" when he told me (again) he loved me and I realised it was true.

 

We shared a flat, and a room and within a year and a month were married.  I guess I kinda eloped to ffice:smarttags" />Egypt but as we weren't residents in the UK we couldn't marry there. We have been married for over four years and a couple for over five and yet he still treats me like a princess and gives me lots of freedom.  I haven't yet told my family and I don't think they'll ever understand.  Every time I even think about it, there seems to be yet another so-called Muslim terrorist making headlines.  It's not like I blame them for thinking all Muslims are terrorists.  For starters, that's what the media often seem to think.  Secondly, I used to think that way myself. 

 

I went back to my home country and my younger brother shocked me, in a different way this time.....................

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
11# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/28/2007 19:59:44)

CHAPTER FOURTEEN: DID I, DO I REALLY BELIEVE THAT?!

 

Later on he gave up the cigarettes, drugs and alcohol and became a religious fundy because he tripped on acid one night and thought that he saw a vision of God!
Ironically the time he tripped on acid BEFORE that he had a hallucination that his friend's disembodied head was and following him!
He knew - later on - that THAT wasn't real, so how come he believed the God thing HAD to be?
The fundy stage is better than the drug addict, out of control alcoholic.
Still, it has its bad points. He pickets gay days, told me he believes anyone who is not a "born-again" Christian is evil!! and when I was leaving after seeing him for the first time in over two years he didn't say "Bye, love you, nice seeing you" but rather "If your plane crashes tonight do you know where you'll go?"
And if all THAT'S not bad enough, he and his wife apparently don't believe in birth control for religious reasons!!

But when I came back to see my family and friends after at least two years away in a more cosmopolitan country, with a much greater mix of ethnicities and religions and working with people from a variety of religious beliefs and being married to a Muslim who treated me very well and did not expect me to convert....

And when my husband looked me in the eye and said he believed that ANYONE who is NOT a "born-again" Christian is evil, something inside me screamed "THAT'S NOT TRUE! YOU KNOW THAT'S NOT TRUE!"

My gay friends were not evil! Sure they slept with the same, not the opposite sex, but they were decent people! One night, not long after September 11 we had said to each other, if only MORE people could be as accepting of differences as we are, then the world would be a more peaceful place! And one day my best gay friend had told me how he'd been ostracised at a party because of his sexuality and he said with great sadness "I didn't CHOOSE to be gay. WHY would I CHOOSE THIS?" I think he meant, to be a minority, to be misunderstood because of his preferences. Besides, someone who I trust had told me someone else they knew was a hermaphrodite.  And I wondered WHY would God create hermaphrodites, with sex organs of BOTH genders, and THEN condemn homosexuality? If you were part man part woman, no matter WHO who had sex with, there'd be a chance it was with the opposite sex!

My Muslim husband was not evil either! In fact he was (and still is) the kindest most loving, gentle peaceful person I have ever met! He respected my Christian beliefs. He knew I would never become a Muslim as I'd made it VERY clear and there was no pressure to convert, no "temptation."

Then I thought of the people at work.  The Hindus? Not evil! The Atheists there and who I'd met earlier on in life? Not evil! The Agnostic? Not evil!

Hitler was evil. Osama Bin Ladin. YES.  But NOT because they were non Christians but because of the type of people they choose to be. 

Evil is as evil does I thought. 

My brother was WRONG!

And then I thought: Did I used to believe that?

No, I don't think I did.  I believed people were misguided yes but evil? No.

But my brother was RIGHT! The Bible DID seem to suggest such a thing!

"Our righteousness outside of Christ is filthy rags to God" my brother preached at me.

And I wondered, for the FIRST time in my WHOLE ENTIRE LIFE!

Could the Bible possibly be wrong?...........................

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
12# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/29/2007 11:53:09)

CHAPTER FIFTEEN: WHO WROTE THE BIBLE?

 I didn't WANT the Bible to be true, I'll be the first to admit that. Despite being told that Christianity had filled the emptiness in others when they'd felt "something was missing" and that other people had tried EVERYTHING and ONLY found satisfaction in the religion, I didn't feel fufilled. 

In fact, Christianity had caused me a lot of pain, a lot of heartache.

I was even considering divorcing my husband who I was (and am) in love with, just because he wasn't a Christian.

I still worried about the end of the world, especially whenever I heard talk of ID cards, was THIS to be the Mark of the Beast? Was my time of hiding in caves and possibly being raped and tortured for my faith to soon begin? I knew I would deny my faith if tortured.  I have a very, very low pain threshold.  And I didn't want to go to hell.

I wanted to be a Christian and yet I really liked my gay friends and didn't have any Christian ones, most of them were so stuck up!  I went to some church services in my new country but there people didn't seem to care about me - again, probably because I was ALREADY a Christian, not one of the "Lost" so why SHOULD they care? I even walked out of one church service when an hour had passed and the singing finally stopped and then the sermon began!

I wanted  to be a Christian but I loved my husband and didn't want to divorce him when there was no guarantee I'd find a Christian husband, after all, I was 30 and I hadn't found one yet!

In my 20s I had read books on goal setting and positive thinking.  I remember my brother deriding my Tony Robbins book because it wasn't Christian! But I found these books helpful.  And yet, of course, again there was a clash with my beliefs.  That God would provide, that I should only trust him.  But He'd seemingly let me down, everytime I tried to! I remembered hearing successful business men in my church say that they'd been recently learning "not to do it all in their own strength." I remember thinking "Well, you're own strength has brought you success and money.  So your own strength must count for SOMETHING!"

And I wondered whether the reason I felt like I did had something to do with the fact that I'd NEVER been given the "gift of speaking in tongues" as much as I'd begged Jesus for it!

In my heart I started to walkaway from my religion from the age of 20.   And I just got further and further away from it in my heart. And yet, in my HEAD there was this programming I'd received from a very young age.  So although I'd walked away in my heart, I was still a Christian in my head, I still believed, even though I didn't want to believe any more.

(And of course I still thought the problem was with me, somehow.)

And then one day I saw the documentry that started a short chain of events that woud change my life.

It was screened on Boxing Day, the day after Jesus' birthday, Christmas.  It was called "Who wrote the Bible?" I read about it in the TV guide and knew there was a good chance this could either help to prove or disprove the bible. 

I decided to watch it and find out which.

I was surprised when the man on the program showed that some parts of the bible were omitted! I was also surprised when he said that archaeologists found what they believe to be Judah but it was a tiny village, not the huge city the Bible claimed it to be.  I can't still remember everything in the program only parts.  Like Moses (I think it was) wrote about his own death in one of the books he was supposed to have written himself!

WAS THERE A CHANCE THE BIBLE WAS A LIE THAT I DIDN'T HAVE TO BELIEVE ANYMORE?

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
13# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/29/2007 12:27:09)

CHAPTER SIXTEEN: FREE AT LAST!

Believe it or not, I'd found this forum "Walk away from Fundamentalism" when I found a different aimoo forum. But at the time, it seemed to extreme for me.  Yes I was unhappy with my religion. But people actually blaspheming the holy ghost! Well that seemed to be taking it a bit too far! I'd looked at this forum because I wanted to read the stories of OTHERS who had walked away from their churches.  I never "trolled" the forum, I never wrote out against this because I believe people are (to a certain point!) entitled to their opinion. 

Well I saw the documentary "Who wrote the Bible?" on Boxing day, December 26, but nothing else happened until sometime in February.  I decided to do a websearch for "Metaphysical Christianity".  I was wanting to perhaps find a church that DID preach a "health and wealth" gosple! That BELIEVED in the power of positive thinking and also Jesus.  Because in my OWN life whenever I believed a relationship would break up soon or I'd lose a job soon, sure enough these things started to sour.  But when I believed I was attractive, guys flocked to me! (Not Christian ones though.) When I believed things would work out and held onto that belief, THEY DID! I thought that the better my life was the CLOSER I felt to God! Yes, my church liked to teach that I should almost EMBRACE a bad life! Because that would bring me closer to Jesus! So why did struggles and heartaches only serve to make me angry and bitter towards him? And good times made me appreciative and thankful?

So I did my search for "Metaphysical Christianity" and was very surprised when one of the links that turned up as a result was a forum for ex Christians! Being that I had left my original church and was not happy about the growing chasm between my beliefs and my lifestye I just HAD to check it out!

What I found there as well as stories of those who'd walked away from Christianity was information and links to MORE information about how the Bible was based on Pagan religions before it, on how illogical things in the Bible were and above all the Biblical contradictions.  The forum and links from it to other sites showed me that while the Bible would say one thing in one area, another part would say the complete opposite! For example, one part of the Bible claimed NOONE has seen God, and then there was a story of someone seeing his back parts! 

It took a while before I checked this information with my Bible because part of me wanted it to be true SO much and was scared that if I looked in my Bible, I would find out that these contradictions didn't exist.  But when I finally took my Bible and looked up the so-called contraditing verses, I found out that every bit of it was true! The Bible DID contradict itself!  I had read books from the library and bookshops that had less plot holes than this - if indeed they had ANY!

How could a book supposedly inspired by God, supposedly THE book to run my life by, THE guidance manual, be so confused about the truth? 

The only answer was, the Bible was NOT true.  It was a lie. 

I don't blame the pastors of my former churches or my family for perpetuating the lie, for, maybe they, like me, did not realise the Bible was so full of holes!

I blame whoever started calling the Bible THE way, THE truth and THE life and telling EVERYONE this, long, long ago.  Whoever said the Bible was more than just another book. 

While I WISH those Atheists I met over 10 years ago had TOLD me all this, I realise that as they were my father's employees, they were probably too scared to.  And in a way I'm glad they didn't.  Like I said, for various reasons I lived with my parents for a long time and I am sure if I had this knowledge then, there would have been even MORE turbulance in the family, and with my out-of-control self-destructive brother, BELIEVE ME we had ENOUGH!

But now I was free! Free to believe whateve I CHOSE to! Free to have gay friends! Free to be married to whoever I wanted! Free to never again feel the need to go church hunting!  Free to stop worrying about burning one day in the everlasting fire of hell or go to heaven and know my friends and husband were there!

I realised the Bible had been right about some things, some versus had excellent points but most of it was a poorly structured and often grusome and sexist trashy novel!

I also realised that this verse was VERY true: "You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."

I now knew the truth: The Bible was and is a lie! And this indeed set me free!

 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

AthenaMarina
14# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:08/29/2007 12:53:04)

CHAPTER SEVENTEEN: EXPLORING NEW PATHS:

It seems that many who "walkaway" from Christianity become Atheists.  That seems logical.  Apart from other reasons, I suppose some feel like they were duped into believing in a religion and they don't want to fall for THAT again.  Plus they don't believe in a higher power. It makes sense.  It's not like you such things are tangible, after all!  You can't exactly touch a higher power.  Most of us who walked away are Atheists. 

Others of us, however, when we "walkawy" from fundamental Christianity (or other fundamental religions) find different paths from Atheism.  Some become Agnostic.  Some of us stay Christians but not fundamental Christians.  And others of us choose different religious and or spiritual paths.  Some of us even combine a mixture of these.

At first I didn't know WHAT I wanted to believe! It was just SUCH a RELIEF to realise I didn't HAVE to believe ANYTHING! There was and is no one way for everybody!

I read about Wicca and I signed up to get snippits on Buddism, Hinduism and Islam sent to my email box, to see if I agreed with any of these. 

I soon ruled out (some) kinds of Buddism out.  I am, after all, while also spiritual and generous, a pretty materialistic sort!  I believe it's OK to have money but it's not OK to trample on others to get it.

I ruled out Hinduism because I had to believe in certain deities. 

I ruled out Islam as soon as I found out that BOTH the Qu'ran AND the Bible teach that the earth is flat! We know scientifically that this isn't true!  Sometimes Islam claims to be more scientifically based than Christianity and yet to me Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all branches of the same tree. Yes, they are very different but they share a lot in common.

I believe some of Christianity was taken from Judaism and some of Islam was taken from the Bible. And if I don't believe in the Bible, why believe in Islam?

I ruled out Wicca because it sounded like there were too many rules and regulations for me.

And yet, I'd been lead to believe that practicing magick and being a witch were evil although both those things had always fascinated me! So I just HAD to dabble!

I dabbled in basic magick and was happy with it.  I also continued to look for and find resources on positive thinking and new thought, creating my own reality if you will.

Although I dismissed Hinduism, I am very interested in Mandalas and find them soothing.  I also like the idea of a Mantra, it's similar to affirmations, something else I like to use.

So I still believe in a higher power.  The differencs are I no longer call that higher power God.  Because I don't believe in God or Jesus or the Holy Spirit anymore.  Sometimes I invoke certain deities in my magick including "The Goddess" but the difference is they don't tell me how to run my life! Nor do they demand I worship them!  I also believe I have abilities inside me - we all do.  Even though we were basically taught - some of us - that we were mere worms before God! Nasty sinners that could do nothing in our own strength, now I know for sure this is not true!

One thing I got out of walking away from Christianity was I got my open mind back.  When I was a child, I was very open minded and could see both sides of most stories. But the church took that away from me.  I was taught that any other path was wrong.  Naturally I am open minded.  Now I have opened up my mind again, like a flower opening up its petals. 

Just because I am straight, it doesn't mean I think gays are twisted! They just have different sexuality.  Just because I am not an Atheist, Buddist, Muslim, Hindu, Wiccan, even Christian, it doesn't mean I think that noone should be. 

Perhaps some people are happy being fundamental Christians.  Perhaps some people who are keep it pretty much to themselves and leave others alone. Good for them. 

But it didn't work for me.  I was told one size fitted all, there was only ONE way to believe and to live.

For nearly three decades I was a square peg in a round hole, desparately trying to become something I clearly wasn't.   Thinking it was me who was sinful, me who was wrong, me who didn't fit in because I was somehow faulty.   When all along, Christianity simply didn't work for me. 

But now I am free.  Free to spend my weekends as I please and read whatever I want and befriend whoever I want, regardless of their lifestyle or beliefs as long as they are peaceful.  Free to live as I please, as long as I don't harm others.  Free to love whomever I choose. Free to make up my own mind about my reproductive options.  Free to believe whatever I want and even free to change my mind in the future about what I believe if I find something that works better for me.  And I am so ethical, more so than even BEFORE I was a Christian in some ways.

And I am free, free, FREE.

And no matter WHAT, I am NEVER going back.

I will NEVER be a slave like that again.

THE END.....FOR NOW!

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

redzed
15# 



Rank:none
Score:500
Posts:500
Registered:09/21/2002
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:09/08/2007 08:34:53)

Reply to : AthenaMarina

Thanx that was great read!  I love your honesty and your conclusions!  Yes to tolerance!  Vive la difference!  So sad about your bro, that's a bad trip he's on!  Why is it the egalitarian teachings of a man of the people has come to this?  Can we lay the sins of fundamentalism at this man's feet?  Is the person we know as Jesus based upon a real historical character?  If so what did he teach? perhaps best left for the Lion's Den?

I'm actually typing this out of an impulse to acknowledge your story, it touched my soul courage, acceptance, reason, joy, those are the emotions I felt.  Thank you for having the courage to write it.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Albert Einstein: "A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe" a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest--a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us."

Namaste

AthenaMarina
16# 



Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:09/22/2007 21:07:14)

And thank YOU Redzed for having the patience to read it!! And I am SO pleased you commented, now I know someone has read it!! THANK YOU!!

--------------------------------------------------------------
Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!

I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!

"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)

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snakechic
17# 



Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours


(Date Posted:09/23/2007 07:41:57)

Reply to : AthenaMarina

 And I am SO pleased you commented, now I know someone has read it!! THANK YOU!!

Awwww!...I read it last time I logged on but didn't comment. Sorry AM... Sometimes everyone needs a bit of validation - I usually jump up to reply so forgive me for forgetting this time.

I think its great therapy / practise to write about your life and your experiences!!! Good for you.! tis not the story but the process of writing that's important to me. ...but  I don't think my memory is as easily organised - I take my hat off to you for being able to be so concise and pick out the highlights...

How it made me feel reading your story:-   I didn't find  I was on a 'downer'  reading it - it was upbeat and getting somewhere if you know what I mean? .

Also...Your story confirms to me that 'faith' is not a constant but goes on hot & cold as the persons life changes and as things about 'christianity' is questioned .....& that Church hopping often leads nowhere. Its not about the 'church' or the dogma but to me, its about the people - you described how you felt trying to 'date' and the conflict you experience (d)  at your choice of partner and their religious or non religious status. ie. relationships are paramount in most peoples lives  and the christian dogma makes full use of that through guilt. The way you story finds energy retelling that part shows how important that is. Yep..and 'christian's' are not spared pain or anguish just because they call themselves 'christian'. There is no such 'reward'.

yeah...its not over till the fat lady sings - life is a work in progress for sure! Go for it -! Write your life story as many times as is necessary - write that book, sounds like it would be great fun for you!

 

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

Jezebel Rising
18# 



Rank:none
Score:338
Posts:338
Registered:09/18/2005
Time spent: 0 hours


(Date Posted:10/13/2007 03:13:11)

Wow.

Your journey consists of so many treacherous twists and turns, and somehow, you escaped the fundies once and for all. And you did it not with any outside assistance, not some imaginary figure to rescue you, but through your own strength and determination. Congratulations on wresting control of your life from the cult that has been intertwined with your life from infancy and carving out a future that is your own. You're awesome.

--------------------------------------------------------------
"I"m not a witch, but I wish I was. If I live I"d be a witch now after what they have done. I"ll burn their crops and kill their animals. I"ll stir up such storms. I"ll scatter their ships across the world. If I could meet with the devil right now, I would give him anything for power, for he is the only way to power for women in this world. I shouldn"t have been afraid of Ellen, I should have learnt. Oh, if I only had magic, I"d make them feel it."

Caryl Churchill, "Vinegar Tom"

"It might be the greatest thing ever invented, but if it"s invented, then it"s not worth dying for."

Taj Bachmann, former missionary

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