Welcome to walkaway.

I come from a Seventh-day Adventist background, but like you, I never really felt the shackles of the religion as I too pretty much did what I pleased. Moreover, I'm actually glad that I grew up in a non-smoking, non-drinking environment as I never ended up picking up these habits.

I got married in the church at a time I believed firmly in everything they taught. Three years later I was ready to walk away, but my wife wasn't. I faked it for two more years - then my wife announced to me one day that she didn't want to attend church any more. For her, the reasons were more personal than intellectual, but the effect was the same; we both ended up walking away together.

One of the difficulties with "fundamentalist" or "inerrantist" religions is the belief that those who have left will go to hell. If your wife or other family members believe that you are going to hell, it will be difficult to maintain certain aspects of the relationship. If she's already told you that she's OK with whatever you decide, you're off to not a bad start.

You will need alot of patience and you'll have to be especially understanding with those who still cling to biblical inerrancy if you don't wish to alienate them.

I found this board to be especially useful in working through these issues myself.

Welcome abord.

Reply to : sayso

Welcome sayso.  Some great thoughts here and similar to my situation in some ways.

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  I believed the bible was inerrant.   My church taught this.  My pastor, who is about as smart and educated as a pastor can be, believes this.   But the day I realized the bible simply is not inerrant is when the strings started to fray.

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Yes.  The Bible is certainly not inerrant.  I think this idea is perhaps the greatest strength and also the greatest flaw of contemporary Christianity.  This idea does hold things together quite well but when the flaws start to appear, like you say, "the strings start to fray".

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The wacky ways you always seem to see believers portrayed in movies (like in "Contact").

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I'm glad you said this because I feel the same way about those scenes.  I have never encountered fundamentalists like this.  I think the movie would have done a much better job if this had been a little closer to the fanatics I have encountered.  Like me for instance when I was still a fundy.

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 I found a great wife... very loving and affectionate.     But our marriage was built around our faith.   I feel horrible that I've dragged her into my new world.    She knows of my doubts.   So does my family.  But I don't think any of them know how far along I am.   I still attend church with my wife simply to make her happy.   I really don't want to disappoint her, but I can't fake it forever. 

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My marriage as well was built around our faith.  When I walked away after 21 years of marriage it was a great shock to my wife and kids.  But at the same time I was still the same person with most of the same ideas I had when I was a Christian.  When my wife fell in love with me, she fell in love with me completely not just my underlying belief systems.  When I walked away I could logically explain to her why I believed the way I did now.  It was all there anyway but just under the surface.  We have spent hours upon hours discussing what we believe and usually have a pretty good time doing it.  So don't be horrified.  Though alot of things have changed at the same time alot of things have stayed the same.

As far as going to church is concerned I think that spiritual continuity is vital to a successful family.  Going to church with her is the right thing for your marriage and future family.  But there are many options for the future and you will both need to grow together.  This can be a wonderful growing experience for the both of you.

Here is what happened for me.   My wife listened to what I had to say and considered all that I felt and believed and understood to be true.  She still remains a Christian but no longer attends church.  We occationally pray together, regularly meditate together, and for the most part believe many of the same things about the spiritual.  If she insisted on going to church I would insist on us finding a non-fundamentlist spiritual group of some sort.  But for now we spend our days pursuing the spiritual in new ways apart from any organized religion.

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  The line between faith and reason snapped already and I can't imagine going back even if I wanted to. 

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Same for me.  I think that this is a solid reality for the person who truely walks away.  I know all the ideas of Christianity but I know I could never buy into most of what is taught.  My wife is pretty comfortable with our differences in belief.   We accept each other right were we are at and I can say that we are actually closer today than we have been for years.

-Exit

Thanks John_Gualt.    Saw a documentary on Ayn Rand recently that was fascinating.  I'm actually reading a book right now titled "Why People Believe Weird Things" and that writer slams the current "leaders" of Rand's organization for thinking they are the only right way.  Something to that effect.  Anyway, I've yet to get through "Atlas Shrugged".

Hell.  Yeah, I'm sure the only reason my family will struggle with my major doubting is where I might end up one day.  My mother has already mailed me three books over the past year as well as a few "pleading" emails.   I'm not going to debate with my family... at least not unless they want that.   I'm not here to rock the boat.   For family and relatives it's not that big of  a deal to me.   I know deep down my parents would never disown me or anything like that.   My aunt talked to her pastor about me... someone I don't even know and he mailed me a book to read.    Some people would be steamed about that, but I really find theology discussions interesting... even if I quit believing most of it.    Anyway, rocking the boat is simply going to happen and I can handle this with every person alive, but I'm not wanting that with my spouse.   I find it interesting what your wife did one day.   To be honest, I think I'd feel a little guilty if she left church because it would have happened because of me.    Her family is as fundified as mine is (and probably in a more intense way).     

I haven't even brought up the issue of children, which we have planned for one day. But I feel like I don't want kids as long as they'd be getting mixed messages.

Thanks Exit.   But you still do believe in or try to live a "spiritual" life?   I mean, I really have the absolute hardest time praying right now.   I don't see the point... other than to make my wife happy.    A couple of weeks ago my mother and grandmom were visiting us and we sat down for a meal.   I felt so uncomfy because I knew what was next.   My wife said, "Why don't you say the prayer?"    Uh, we don't pray when it's the two of us!   I just never did this even when I was single because I prayed a lot in the morning anyway, including thanking for the food provided that I'd eat later.   Anyway, the way I felt as I prayed in front of everyone felt so bizarre.   I'm sure my Mom wasn't happy that I gave one of those little, "God is good" prayers... but what can ya do?   The next day when it was time to pray over a meal I told my wife to do it.  Hope my grandmom wasn't clueing in to all this.

I'm impressed you have maintained a solid relationship with your wife despite your differences.   Marriage is hard even when things are right.   Differences are natural, but spiritual matters are so ingrained and that's why I'm a little concerned.   Thanks for telling me of your experience.

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Thanks Exit. But you still do believe in or try to live a "spiritual" life? I mean, I really have the absolute hardest time praying right now.

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Yes I do have a spiritual life but very different from what it was when I was a Christian.  I think that a spiritual component to life is vital to my existence.  I didn't pray for at least a year when I walked away.  But then I ran into some really difficult situations that were just too big for me to handle.  I needed to let them go and the only way I could was through prayer.  My prayers however were not directed to a particular god or diety.  Just put out there and let go of.  It helped.  I didn't need to pray all the time or for others nor for my food.  Man, praying for my food seems so stupid now.

I see myself as somewhat different from many people here but at the same time I am very comfortable here.  This board was the single most important support system I had when I walked away.  It helped me enormously.

I am no longer a Christian.  I describe myself as a Taoist.  I have always believed most if not all of Taoisms ideas.  I do not buy into religious Taoism with its culturally influenced dieties and multifaceted superstitions.  I believe there are components of this life that transcend our five senses and it is in relationship to this realm that I am refering when I say that I have a spiritual life.

As far as praying goes, a prayer before meal could be looked at as a courtesy or good manners.  I have prayed for food and times together with family in the context of what is good manners when it is what is expected.  I do pray differently than they do though.  I think it is only right for me to be as dogmatic as they are-is it not?  So I pray something like, "God, thank you for this food and this time together with those we love.  May our conversations and feelings be a blessing to each other as we grow together in our spiritual understanding of this life.  Amen."  I just make it up as I go along and seek to be as honest as I possibly can.  I try not to be preachy.  If you really don't want to pray you will have to always be explaining why you don't want to.  And that gets so tiring.  I find it easier to just put up with some things in life.

  Gradually, year by year I have been making it plain that I am no longer a believer in Christianity.  In fact I think my Christmas cards this year will feature a Yin/Yang symbol.  Haha... that should ruffle a few feathers.  Inside I may say,  "this Christmas may you hold to the center." Most will not know what that means, but they will sure see that my belief system is different from what it once was.

Peace.

-Exit

Just wanted to say hi and say that I too seem to be one of the few on here (similar to EXITONLY that still maintains a faith. I am equally as clouded on it and to the true identity of God, but that does not detract me from the belief that there is a God. I have already undergone some serious debate with certain members about why I believe still. My thing was that I let go of the institution, religion per se, which I believe to be built under the same premises as corporations and government with clear hierarchical foundations as strong hypocrisy. I just wanted to say something about you mentioning whether or not you have kids. You said you aren't sure due to the fact that you are concerned they will grow confused as to whether they should adopt your brand of faith or your wife's brand . . . . . . My girlfriend (cyranothe2nd is also on this board and we've had discussions about this as well. She walked away and we debate frequently and fervently about the existence of God. Remember this, opening up the world to children having parents of differing beliefs is not a bad thing. Children are more independent thinkers than once believed, and more autonomy is being granted unto them this day and age as it pertains to religion. I would suggest that you don't decide against having children based solely on the worry that they will become befuddled by two different perspectives on God in your household, much in the same manner that I would advise against couples having children to solidify their marriage, give meaning to thier own lives or because the church says or doesn't say so.

Reply to : sayso

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Greetings from a ________. I don't know whatI am right now! I have just spent the past 12 months watching my faith crumble due almost soley to intellectual doubting. I've studied and pondered and read and pondered and slowly realized I don't believe what I once believed. And instead of a satisfying conclusion, at the moment I'm bummed and not sure where to go next.... if anywhere. I never considered my faith to be close to the stereotypical image of a fundamentalist. Even if I WAS one I never liked that tag. Even in my strongest feelings/views on faith I shied away from charismatic actions. I've always found televangelists cheesy and nothing like the Christianity I wanted to be around. And so I ended up in a great church with great friends.... solid teaching. 

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>Just wanted to say hi and say that I too seem to be one of the few on here (similar to EXITONLY that still maintains a faith.<

I am one of the few who holds on to certain aspects of a faith (although even most liberal Christians say I am far too liberal), I believe there is, for lack of a better word, a "creative intelligence" that one could label God, Goddess, Universal Spirit, whatever, and I like the philosophy of the "Golden Rule" and other spiritual ideas of Jesus.  Too complicated to really explain.  However, my extremely liberal beliefs about sex and sexuality, individual rights for people of all or no religious beliefs, and the fact that I believe that a person needs no religion or belief to be a good and complete human being cause most Christians to say I dare not begin to call myself anything resembling "Christian".  My thought is, I could care less what they say I should or should not call myself, I am who I am. 

I'm not posting as much lately due to the fact that my life is in major uproar right now; I am struggling to get paid several grand in back pay from my employer, and work out some agreement that will enable me to be paid for what I do.  That, plus I have a week (no make that three days) to find a new apartment.  And, I am back in the music business again, lead singing in a band doing two rehearsals a week and several concerts a month, with a possible industry Showcase for a label in July.  Plus all kinds of other things going on.  But I still drop in as often as I can. 

>You said you aren't sure due to the fact that you are concerned they will grow confused as to whether they should adopt your brand of faith or your wife's brand . . . . . . <

I can say that when I eventually do have kids I want them to decide for themselves what is right for them.  I DO want to make sure that they learn to think for themselves-not let anyone tell them what "the Truth" is, but to teach them basic ethics, and beyond that allow them to find their own truth.  I will do my best to shield them from being sucked in and brainwashed by fundyism.  Just I would protect them from child molesters and predators of all types; the way some fundy groups manipulate the kids and terrorize them with hell and the devil is nearly as bad as physical abuse.   IMHO fundys who try to terrorize children into a belief system (e.g., "If your Mommy and Daddy don't 'make a decision for Jesus' they will go to hell when they die and you will never see them again"-I have seen that exact thing said) are as predatory as those who would physically abuse a child, and the classmates who invite them to a revival I view as the ones who would invite them to a party where they can sample addictive narcotics.    There is, however, IMHO a major, major difference in one parent being a Christian and one being an atheist or of a different faith, and a parent who is a fundamentalist who is determined that their kids believe the same as they do out of terror their child's souls are in eternal peril.   

It seems to me that many people think that leaving christianity/fundamentalism means that you also leave spirituality.  To my mind this couldn't be further from the truth.  For one thing, I left christianity/fundamentlaism because of its lack of real spirituality!!!  Spirituality is one thing I was looking for there and didn't find.  Christianity is such a circus, sideshow, fake, lie, etc.  It promises so much but delivers nothing.

When I first walked away I did seperate myself from almost all spiritual endeavors.  But as I continued on in life I began to reestablish my spirituality.  I did this taking care to not allow any of my past fundy indoctrination influence me.  This is no easy task and I still check myself when I find I am drifting in a wrong direction.

I considered attending some alternative gatherings in town here, but then I asked myself why.  Isn't this just more of what organized religion is all about?  ditto to what mistercy says about churches being like corportions and governments.  They are nothing more than self propogating businesses that prey on the gullible of this world.  There are some organizations that I do think have good intentions.  But for the most part religion is mainly about money and control.

More comments?  I would like to hear.

-Exit