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ExitOnly
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1# |
Registered:
02/06/2003
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(Date Posted:03/10/2003 04:46:26)
Well hello Librarian Beth.
Good to hear from you. I have been on this board for almost two years now. I changed my name a month back so my posts appear low.
What you say resonates with me. I, like you, was in fundamentalist religion for about 25 years. Let me see ummm 1977 till 2001. Ahhhh about 24. Part of that was affiliated with the strict fundamentalist baptist believers that you speak of. So I have some picture of what you are talking about.
In my pursuit of truth I explored many facets of christianity. I see any spiritual exploration as better than none. Unfortunately, many if not all religious quests are filled with many pitfalls. One big pitfall is the cult indoctrination in some form or another. Be careful. I too am being really cautious as I proceed.
Some comments on your post: I walked away on June 22nd, 2001. This date of walkaway came at the end of many years of frustration, doubt, dissappointment, and hurt in direct relation to fundamentalist christianity. But like you, I too have not left my belief in a God. Actually it is more in the possibility and plausibility of there being a God. I think this does put us in a minority on this board but that is the beauty of this place. I do not feel rejected because of my thoughts on this and other issues. I do meet with some harse criticism at times, but it has always been good. What good is any belief if it can not face up to harse criticisim? My critics have almost always helped me to better refine my own evolving belief system.
Be assured that you and I were both in a cult. Though christianity doesn't typically get labeled as such, if you look at the traits of a cult and observe the various techniques that are employed by the church to win converts, keep converts, control converts, and get money, you will find they practice cultism in many ways and in various degrees.
I too miss the joy of having faith, but what good is having faith in something that is not true?? Right? It is a false assurance and a false joy. I want what is real and sure. If Jesus is who he claimed to be, then I think we can find him seperate from this silly thing called the christian church. The lack of fullfillment of Jesus' promises though raises serious doubts on his authority and even his existence. (See other posts for discussion on these topics.)
It is so liberating to no longer be concerned about the number of souls being brought to heaven nor the number of sins for which I must repent nor for the debilitating guilt of always being told that I am not doing enough. Christianity can truely be the shits!
So don't be confused, be relieved that you have made a good step to pull away from fundamentalism. I believe that conservatism and spiritual belief do not have to be abandoned just because we leave fundamentalism. On the contrary, conservatism and spiritual belief need to "taken back" from the fundamentalists. Who gives them the right to have the last word on what conservatism or spiritual belief is anyway?
I will say that my conservatism has become different from fundamentalist conservatism. So in that there is a difference. My politics and spiritual belief system is now in a continual state of evolution and transformation. Quite different from the stagnation of fundamentalism. Take a look at fundamentalism, where growth means staying more and more the same. Which really isn't growth at all now is it? Tell me, how much spiritual growth do you think you really obtained while you were in the Baptist Church? I can say that I did grow some, but nowhere near the growth I was promised. I can say that I have grown more in my spiritual understanding in the past year and a half than I did in 10 years in christianity.
I am looking forward to your reply and hope to see more of you here as people like you are a great help to me because we share some similar beliefs that are in the minority here.
-Exit
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She said something like, "Well, now that you've forced me into this tiny little box, I guess your explanation is that it is the only one I can choose." -post by phoenixgirl
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Waynus
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2# |
Rank:none
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Posts:173
Registered:
06/19/2002
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(Date Posted:03/10/2003 08:11:10)
Reply to : LibrarianBeth
Hi everyone.I have left Fundamentalism, but I have not left my belief in God. So I am not sure where all that puts me in this group here.
I would say comfortably in the group. There are many who have lost all faith while others are still struggling with what is left. So welcome !!
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There is no fire like hatred, no rushing river like craving, and no snare like illusion. Buddha
Random thoughts at
http://waynus.blogspot.com/
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Blue_Fox
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3# |
Rank:none
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Posts:153
Registered:
04/22/2002
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(Date Posted:03/11/2003 10:41:20)
Glad to meet you, Beth. I was raised in the Church of Christ, another very conservative group who thinks no one in any other church is a real Christian or will make it to heaven. I was faithfully dedicated to that church and its doctrines until a couple of years ago, when I went through the most painful and confusing time of my life thus far and watched the house of cards that was my faith come tumbling down. I felt totally estranged from God and the community in which I had invested myself. After a while I reached a kind of peace with being unsure about life, after so many years of being taught that "sureness" about God and the Bible was the most important thing. I too miss some of the aspects of my former faith, such as feeling part of a community, the hymns, the dynamic discussions in bible classes. But those things quickly lost their appeal in the church when I saw the falsehoods and danger behind core church teachings. I find that I can work these aspects into my life in other more satisfying ways. I've been visiting a Unitarian-Universalist church off and on. The Quakers (Society of Friends?) have always fascinated me. They seem to emphasize a meditative approach and a sort of mystical connection to God. At this point, I would have to say that I have no belief in a god or gods. I am still exploring and hope to never stop, but I want to savor my life along the way.
My personal welcome to you is that whatever you currently think and feel about God and life, you are welcome here. You've been through the fire (your shirttails may even still be smoking) and you know what it's like to experience fundamentalism from the inside. I hope you feel at home here, and many good wishes for you on your journey.
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Berta
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4# |
Registered:
12/16/2002
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(Date Posted:03/12/2003 19:18:58)
Hi, Beth! I posted my "be gentle with me", I'm a believer BEFORE I
read your post! <G> Welcome aboard - I've been here less than a
week.
Enjoying the company thus far, though.
Berta
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Ladyhawk
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5# |
Registered:
08/11/2001
Time spent:
0 hours
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(Date Posted:03/16/2003 11:05:14)
Reply to Exit Only:
I will say that my conservatism has become different from fundamentalist conservatism. So in that there is a difference. My politics and spiritual belief system is now in a continual state of evolution and transformation. Quite different from the stagnation of fundamentalism. Take a look at fundamentalism, where growth means staying more and more the same. Which really isn't growth at all now is it?
This is a very astute observation. I think I would feel more comfortable with conservatives if they challenged their beliefs occasionally. Right-wing fundamentalists almost never challenge their beliefs. In fact, they tend to let church leaders do their thinking for them.
"Now with the wisdom of years, I try to reason things out. And the only people I fear are those who never have doubts. Save us all from arrogant men and all the causes they're for. I won't be righteous again. I'm not that sure anymore." -- "Shades of Grey" by Billy Joel
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Some love is just a lie of the heart
The cold remains of what began with a passionate start
And they may not want it to end
But it will it's just a question of when
I've lived long enough to have learned
The closer you get to the fire the more you get burned
It's hard when you're always afraid
You just recover when another belief is betrayed
So break my heart if you must
It's a matter of trust
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katseye
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6# |
Rank:none
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Posts:159
Registered:
10/04/2002
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(Date Posted:03/16/2003 23:15:39)
Reply to : LibrarianBeth
I am not sure where I fit anymore.?I am far too conservative to fit comfortably in "the world" yet far too worldly to fit anywhere else.?A therapist said recently that I haven't had enough time to deprogram.?Makes me sound like I was in a cult.?Maybe I was.?I don't know anymore.
Hi LibrarianBeth,
I was raised by fundy missionaries that though Bob Jones University was too liberal! We actually spent some time there, but my dad came to the conclusion that there was far too much compromise with "the world". So I may have some idea of the level of isolation you have experienced. There are many ways in which this kind of fundamentalism is like being in a cult. "Deprogram" is a loaded word, and my therapists have avoided the use of it. In my case there was a level of mind control that some people call "programming", and it takes a long time to shed the remnants of its influence.
It's very hard to find a way to fit anywhere after spending so much time in such severe isolation. The most important thing is to acknowledge the monumental task you are faced with and take it at your own pace. It's a huge transition to make. In the meantime, you "fit" with me, because we have the shared experience of leaving ultra-conservative fundamentalism, leaving behind the constant guilt and judgement. It's important to find other people that share this experience while in the time of transition.
You are incredibly brave to make the move away from the fundy world. I think you will find some good support in this forum.
kat
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exmissionary
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7# |
Rank:none
Score:0
Posts:215
Registered:
09/02/2002
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(Date Posted:03/22/2003 04:23:46)
Hi Beth!
finally got a chance to read your intro. There are a few of us who post who haven't left Christianity completely. We've all come to a variety of conclusions about what that means. I know when I first posted here back in the fall, I got the sweats, I deleted my history after each time I posted (so no one would find out I'd been here) I was very careful with details about my life and I was afraid to tell my husband. It felt like treason to post on WA.
As the months have progressed, I becamse more comfortable. I had a few conversations with members that helped me sort out what I was leaving behind adn what I could hold onto. I also have made no commitments inside that say: "I'll go this far and no further." Conversely, I haven't felt pressure to say: "I'll be done walking away when Christianity is gone from my life."
I decided then to take things one step at a time. I like that the name of the forum is Walk Away, not "Make a decision about how is on the throne of your heart right this second or it won't count." Walking implies an even, unhurried pace. That fits my deconversion really well.
So welcome!
Exmissionary
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I'm not easy on my knees. (Love and Peace or Else, U2)
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disquieter
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8# |
Rank:none
Score:0
Posts:78
Registered:
01/16/2003
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(Date Posted:03/29/2003 08:46:34)
I am not sure where I fit anymore. I am far too conservative to fit comfortably in "the world" yet far too worldly to fit anywhere else.
Beth, I think it's true that no matter what your position in life, you're never alone. There is always someone else dealing with the same issues you are. And honestly, many of us here at Walk Away are dealing with exactly the same struggles you have. You fit in here just fine.
I miss being able to worship and find inner peace...I am very confused.
The thing that helped to both leave fundamentalism and to find meaning and peace in the aftermath, was learning about many worldviews, religions, and philosophies different from fundamentalist Christianity. Learning about those helped--and is helping--me to develop my own worldview and to find my own meaning. I think having something to fill the void is important after leaving Christian fundamentalism, though it's important not to simply subscribe to another religion in a fundamentalist way. So my suggestion to you would be to read some books, or maybe even take some classes, about religion, ethics, and philosophy. Some of the aspects I find the most fascinating are existentialism, moral/ethical relativism, liberal Christianity (which incorporates higher criticism of the Bible and radical theological ideas, among other aspects), and comparative religion in general. Developing a new worldview and finding new meaning will be a process, but peace and meaning will come in time, as you come to a new understanding of who you are.
Damn, I hope that didn't sound preachy. If it did, please pardon me and ignore what I just said. Don't let anyone tell you what to do, be, or think, ever. 
For what it's worth, I would currently call myself a "liberal Christian," which while not having a very specific meaning, does mean that I find power and value in religion, but I think about it in a completely different way from how I would have in the past. I don't believe in God as a personal, active, omniscient and omnipresent being, but I do believe in God in a mystical sense, being that which drives humans do good and being that which we experience in times of mystical/spiritual/religious prayer, meditation, worship, etc. For me, God is an extension of mind, the nearly universal experience of that which connects us to the "more-than-human" world. God is subjective, and transcends human divisions of denomination, religion, and sect. God's truth speaks to me through life, and through writings like the Bible and the Tao Te Ching, though neither offers a complete or flawless portrayal of God. For me, God is symbolic, mythological, and archetypal, representing the good that man aspires to be and do. And so I still believe in God, but not nearly in the same way I used to.
I'm sure you'll find peace and clarity; just give it time. And some study wouldn't hurt. 
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The mark of a moderate man
is freedom from his own ideas.
Tolerant like the sky,
all-pervading like sunlight,
firm like a mountain,
supple like a tree in the wind,
he has no destination in view
and makes use of anything
life happens to bring his way.
~Tao Te Ching
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