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snakechic
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Reply To Guest
(Date Posted:04/08/2008 19:13:55)
I'll use your layout - it would make it a lot easier and quicker. Random thoughts - I like that!
1. Watching the way the adults behaved around each other generally. Its was fake imo. Realising that the adults were not capable of thinking for themselves and how afraid they looked at times. How they covered up their mistakes in case someone from the congregation might spread the news or judge them.
2. The bible teachings regarding human relationships. ie. child rearing - how abusive that is and out of line with the rest of society. The way females were treated as rubbish and referred to as evil bitches for any kind of side step from their particular view of what a female MUST look and act. The way families were created - forced marriages.
The busy body thing again...lack of proper sex education and denial of 'natural' human development. Being told nothing about menstruation. Being told masturbating is a moral sin etc etc.
Being told that I couldn't play or socialise with other kids because they didn't go to THE right church - and hearing how they were being described.
One thing I'll never forget ...I was at our local park, talking a young guy in a wheel chair when my father pounced on me and yell at me. I shouldn't be talking to a cripple! The SDAist people have a thing about disease and health. I guess my father freaked out at the thought that his grandchildren might be 'imperfect'. I hated that attitude - I was only 10 yrs.
3. Stupid shit about food - what is unclean or not. Even at a young age I KNEW that was a load of crap! All that obsessing about food and drink.
4. Hearing loud and angry 'discussions' and being inside the church and having to sit through weekly tirades from the pastor. Thank fuckingchrist they didn't use a mic in those days.
5. Playing on the basket ball court and being around the other teenage Baptist girls. The click thing - which is pretty normal but add a dose of religious fervor and it becomes hideous.
6. I simply didn't believe the tripe of the bible or the accompanying material from various so called 'scholars' - I didn't feel any respect or how can I put it. I wasn't impressed at all. (even at a young age)
7. The penny finally dropping ..when I realised that I would loose my family when I told them I wouldn't jump on the first plane to visit the pastor in another city. I felt completely set up. Deceived and manipulated.
8. Finally hearing the pastor scream down the phone at me in tongues because he refused to answer my question 'why do you break up families'!
The cocksucker 'doomed me to hell'...hehehe
9. 'satan' didn't rock my boat either. I came away from my christian childhood with not much awareness of a separate 'god' but a heap baggage regarding 'evil' 'satan' 'devil worship'...revenge, the end of the world ...and basically what is wrong and bad about the world and people. I felt weighed down by all that shit..............so when I left home as a young girl I felt so free and clean. It was the best feeling!
What's interesting is how I and heaps of other's are sucked back in. I only attended about 4 meetings in total but I was recruited (or nagged) for 10 years. I finally agreed when I knew I was leaving town - I wanted to 'please' my sibling but according to the bible teaching (look it up if you like) there is a handy little verse that says that if you have accepted 'jebus' and then refuse, it is then considered the worse 'sin'. All sounds a bit like the vampire story doesn't it. Could be where it came from?
Interesting bunch of bullshit. Doesn't stop the cycle of indecision and the entire shifts when people hop from one church to another.
I think thats the best clue - the bible is very easy to ignore. It has no weight in secular environments like Australia. I guess that is why the christian is so hell bent on changing the world to suit them....to limit choices.
To me...if you have to do that kind of thing....means its crap.!
(Message edited by snakechic on 04/08/2008 19:25:02)
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Chirpy
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RE:The Straw(s) That Broke The Camel's Back
(Date Posted:04/09/2008 12:46:42)
3. Stupid shit about food - what is unclean or not. Even at a young age I KNEW that was a load of crap! All that obsessing about food and drink.
I couldn't relate to that as I only went to evangelical churches and have no experience of SDA's with their strict dietary codes. There are apparently few restrictions in evangelical churches and I knew a few vegetarians amongst the majority who ate a standard diet. The pentecostals however are suspicious about any new foods until it's been in the mainstream for a few years. However the hassle you went through over diet is exactly what I found in the raw food movement. I tried raw foodism for a while and although I was only 50% raw and I had intentions of going mostly raw and going vegan as well except that it can get too extreme and the climate in this country makes it almost impossible except during good summers. There are some who obsess about getting oat flakes, agave syrup and nuts from special raw food websites rather than the supermarket in order to make sure the food hasn't been heat treated to preserve shelf life after all food and drink they take in must be raw as they see a huge difference between a 99% raw diet and a 100% raw diet. Some raw food coaches obsess about only eating 'clean' (smacks of SDA or orthodox Jewish terminology) food which means it must be raw, vegan, low fat and organic. Eventually they end up subsisting on a diet of green leaves, fruit and coconut juice if their fanaticism gets out of hand. There are some who take in only fresh juices for days or weeks on end. Others try hemp seed only mono diets believing every that the hemp seed contains every nutrient a human needs. Yet every foodstuff contains toxins, even tomatoes and potatoes, so we have to have a variety of foods in order to reduce particular toxin loads. Having come out of fundy religion this is something I'd cannot be fussed with. I haven't fought for my freedom to find another form of fundamentalism as I realise that it is a one way street.
Apart from that hypocrisy was the final straw and realising that church services were making me feel depressed because of the emphasis on the old testament. Up until then I had put up with the misogyny, intolerance towards alcohol and hush hush attitude towards menstruation because it also reflected what was going on in mainstream society at the time I became a christian. When I did take a break from it society had moved on and was becoming quite liberal about these matters causing a greater gap between religious life and secular life. After spending time outside the church for a few years and going back I did find it hard to settle back in so I was going round in a viscious circle of religious addiction, living in the world, feeling guilty about it and then becoming quite fanatical at times wanting nothing to do with the world. I was learning more and more about new age practices such as meditation, circle dancing, herbalism, aromatherapy, complementary therapies and yoga as they were becoming more popular and also because I have a love of nature; being drawn to it to compensate for the harshness found in church and then reacting against it. Eventually I had to get off the merry go round in order to make some peace with myself.
(Message edited by Chirpy on 04/09/2008 12:47:40)
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snakechic
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RE:The Straw(s) That Broke The Camel's Back
(Date Posted:04/22/2008 17:30:19)
" The pentecostals however are suspicious about any new foods until it's been in the mainstream for a few years". The penties I've known tuck in like there is no tomorrow! Those ' all you can eat ' restaurants are favoured over any other kind and when they go through the drive in of their favourite burger joint, its always for a BIG super meal and fuck off with your the diet coke. And love to buy/try any new food product (preferably processed) that comes out in the supermarkets. So I guess you can't generalise about people including penties. but I think you're spot on with the comparisons between some vegetarianism and fanaticism. Some even have their own 'guru' research and like to spread that around like it was some kind of 'gospel'. Yeah..there is no such thing as 'pure' food. Whats that saying..."eat to live..not live to eat' anyway...I remember that the final straw for me (aged about 6yrs) was about JELLY. The stuff you buy in those little packets that come in fruit flavours. I didn't buy the idea that sticking my wet finger into those yummy crystals was going to make into some 'evil' doer but what the heck I did it anyway. And guess what! the sky did not fall in. There you go. THe reason I'm a non believer. Empirical knowledge strikes again! 
(Message edited by snakechic on 04/22/2008 17:40:59)
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Chirpy
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RE:The Straw(s) That Broke The Camel's Back
(Date Posted:04/23/2008 04:53:00)
Re: the penties
Maybe it's just the way things were in the late seventies and early eighties in UK when there wasn't so much credit and greed about. It might have been a reflection of the times back then and conservative christians being more reticent than the mainstream. Things are changing and it's becoming the norm to eat out or order take aways whereas that was once a special treat for families. So I supposed it's reflected in all walks of society.
There aren't many drive in restaurants in UK as it's very overcrowded and not such a car based society though there are some on motorway junctions and there is a growing trend for people to drive to these places for a meal rather than use their local high street or try and find somewhere to park in the city centre.
(Message edited by Chirpy on 04/23/2008 04:55:14)
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snakechic
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Reply To Chirpy
(Date Posted:04/23/2008 17:35:36)
Reply to Chirpy (04/23/2008 2:53 AM) Re: the penties
Maybe it's just the way things were in the late seventies and early eighties in UK when there wasn't so much credit and greed about. It might have been a reflection of the times back then and conservative christians being more reticent than the mainstream. Things are changing and it's becoming the norm to eat out or order take aways whereas that was once a special treat for families. So I supposed it's reflected in all walks of society.
There aren't many drive in restaurants in UK as it's very overcrowded and not such a car based society though there are some on motorway junctions and there is a growing trend for people to drive to these places for a meal rather than use their local high street or try and find somewhere to park in the city centre.
 I'd never heard of Pentecostalism way back in the late 70's! Oh bliss! Reading your last post Chirpy ..it wasn't clear which era you were actually referring to. Doesnt matter thou'. Its a pretty good generalisation to make that 'conservative christians being more reticent than the mainstream' to do a number of things. Lack of education makes people seem backward as well ..not to mention following the OT laws as they still do all around the globe. But since 9/11 I think all this changed and the christian fundies/conservatives seemed to crawl out of the woodwork and claim their place in the sun. So yeah...its been a prime time for them politically as well. I'm seeing a change lately, which is great, the high and mighty have not been as sucessful as they wished (prayed  ) - what with all the scandles, deaths etc the old school fundies are again being over looked. Anyway...back to Penties I've come across (which aren't all that many) love to think of themselves as the new age christian - the ground breakers who have found the 'true' way to a perfect life...bla bla bla...they buy big and love to flaunt their PROSPERITY. YOu only have to look at the telewevils to see how much money is being made by the business of christian lifestyle and bible stuff. btw...Australia is pretty crowded in the city centres as well and I'm suffering the petrol prices hike EEK! its so high this week! p.s. Aimoo is glilching again - wonder if this will get posted?
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Chirpy
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RE:The Straw(s) That Broke The Camel's Back
(Date Posted:04/23/2008 19:28:43)
I'm a bit out of it when it comes to religious people's lifestyles these days as I left fundyism for the last time back in 2001 months before 9/11. The first time was in 1988 but that was more like drifting away rather than consciously walking away as I simply wanted my Sundays free so I could do other things. So I guess things have changed in conservative churches but I don't want to go back to find out. If people in the mainstream are spending like money is going out of fashion on the latest gadgets and bulk buying clothes than it figures that fundies are doing the same.
When I was going to evangelical Anglican and Methodist churches by and large the church leaders and elders were quite frugal. They would have their large houses in the suburbs but that was because they had large families and would open their homes up to visitors. I didn't see dishwashers, microwaves, tumble dryers or the latest in audio visual equipment and the walls were usually painted in magnolia or white. Meals were cooked from scratch as wifey was usually not in a paid job or if she was she would make sacrifices or her time along with her daughters. They would spend their money on fair trade products though which would cost a bit more than the equivalent items made in sweat shops. The tide started to turn in the late eighties when some male church seniors would think it OK to have some expensive hobby such as buying and doing up vintage cars but young single women weren't supposed to be out spending money on clothes, make up, entertainment and travel or taking well paid jobs.
(Message edited by Chirpy on 04/23/2008 19:34:41)
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snakechic
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Reply To Chirpy
(Date Posted:04/23/2008 20:05:14)
Reply to Chirpy (04/23/2008 5:28 PM) I'm a bit out of it when it comes to religious people's lifestyles these days as I left fundyism for the last time back in 2001 months before 9/11. The first time was in 1988 but that was more like drifting away rather than consciously walking away as I simply wanted my Sundays free so I could do other things. So I guess things have changed in conservative churches but I don't want to go back to find out. If people in the mainstream are spending like money is going out of fashion on the latest gadgets and bulk buying clothes than it figures that fundies are doing the same.
When I was going to evangelical Anglican and Methodist churches by and large the church leaders and elders were quite frugal. They would have their large houses in the suburbs but that was because they had large families and would open their homes up to visitors. I didn't see dishwashers, microwaves, tumble dryers or the latest in audio visual equipment and the walls were usually painted in magnolia or white. They would spend their money on fair trade products though which would cost a bit more than the equivalent items made in sweat shops. The tide started to turn in the late eighties when some male church seniors would think it OK to have some expensive hobby such as buying and doing up vintage cars but young single women weren't supposed to be out spending money on clothes, make up, entertainment and travel or taking well paid jobs.
You don't have to go back to any church/hall to find out anything Chirpy. There is more than enough material online to delight any researcher - bloggers by the trillions - all kinds of christian forums etc.........That's one of the main reasons I post and read the internet is to keep informed about the changes throughout religious circles and how that effects society. I'm more observant of the ways religious dogma en tires society these days and what role politics/global affect events ie. the religious right - Bush - lies about the war in Iraq, all kind of things. I'm into all that stuff... Yeah...I know exactly what you mean bout the old fashioned or old school christian conservatives - that was how I left it way back when I was a little kid. I made the conscious decision NOT to follow my parents religion at about the age of 10yrs old but never really 'got it' - the idea of 'satan' etc was more impressed on me more than anything else - hence me interest and delight in horror stories /myths etc.. It was relatively easy to ignore religion (apart from my relationship with my parents) living in Australia. That's part of the problem I think. People become complacent and don't inform themselves. However like anyone or any system it changes and adapts to the surrounding community/society it inhabits. There is no doubt that religion has changed. I think the term 'fundamentalist' is no longer relevant - there are so many new and creepy denominations being created everyday. (almost). I think the main reason my sister got so sucked in initially was that the penties presented themselves as entirely different (externally) to the old fashioned ways of the 50's and 60's. The women wore so much makeup that it was Avon Heaven. And for some silly reason...I think some females have reverted to an old fashioned mind - prior to the feminist revolution or vigorous campaigning of the 70's. It a lot of ways young women generally are not taking care of their 'rights' and falling backwards. My older sister was never particularly interested in feminist issues and seemed to always have a conservative 'need' to find order in the world...ie. the Males as 'natural' born leaders. I think she was bitterly disappointed by her choice in men/husbands. I think its interesting that somehow chrisitianity takes away from males as much as it does from females and others.
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Chirpy
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RE:The Straw(s) That Broke The Camel's Back
(Date Posted:04/24/2008 14:37:43)
I thought that the Tammy Faye look was restricted to the red states in the USA where garish and dated make up colours are de rigeur. You see them in catalogues from christian owned companies which use pyramid marketing techniques such as Amway and Neways. Not what you would see in the Body Shop or on the MAC counter in department stores.
From watching television and seeing born againers on reality type programmes I noticed it's more common for younger christian women to sport tattoos, naval piercings and wear tops with spaghetti straps while judging other women for showing midriffs and wearing skimpy dresses. Corinee Bailey Rae professed to be religious and yet she loved to have a go at the Pussy Cat Dolls for being overly sexual.
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