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Title: Hell Sells
  
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snakechic
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(Date Posted:03/16/2008 20:25:03)

(Do you) Love the idea of 'hell'?

I've always had this personal theory or idea that  people (generally)  love to be horrified as much as they 'love' to cry at movies - and be moved emotionally. It stimulation that can become addictive &  part of everyday life. ? I don't know - fill it in for yourself.

Here's a story that  backs up my idea - have a look - see what you think.




'Nobody Goes to Hell': Minister Labeled a Heretic

One Minister Challenges the Idea of Hell and Loses His Congregation

Carlton Pearson Minister Carlton Pearson lost hig mega-congregation after he questioned whether hell really existed. (ABC) By BILL WEIR
Virtually every religion throughout human history has some notion of a horrible life after death. And though the threat of fire and brimstone is not preached as fervently in this age of reason, one man in Tulsa, Okla., knows just how hard it is for modern believers -- and their religious institutions -- to let go of the medieval vision of hell.

"If I say everybody's going to heaven, then I can't raise money from you to get me to keep people out of hell," Carlton Pearson said with a wry smile.

He knows firsthand that when it comes to filling pews, hell sells. And when he stopped believing in it, he lost an evangelical empire built over a lifetime.

Carlton Pearson was born to work a pulpit.

"My dad was preacher, his dad was preacher," he said. "Tongue talkin', pew jumpin', holiness, hellfire and brimstone."

Pearson began casting demons out of people at age 16, and he couldn't wait to go to Oral Roberts University. Once there, his love of the Scriptures and his stage presence was so obvious, the renowned televangelist took him under his wing and took him on the road as one of the World Action Singers.

"Oh man, that was heaven on earth for me," Pearson said. "In our opinion, Oral Roberts was the third cousin to the Holy Ghost."

After years preaching to crowded arenas and television audiences, he built the Higher Dimensions church in Tulsa and soon became an evangelical megastar with a megacongregation -- up to 6,000 people would attend his services each week, and he was in high demand in the Christian world, sharing pulpits with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson.

After the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, he was called to lead the grieving in prayer. And he counseled both President Bush and President Clinton on faith-based initiatives.

Throughout his rise, Pearson preached the fundamentals: Everyone is born a sinner. Everyone is going to hell ... unless they accept Jesus Christ as lord.

One sermon from the late '90s displays his passion: "Thank God, I don't have to go to hell, even though I deserve hell," he shouted. "But Jesus vicariously substituted for me, took on death, hell and the grave, and I have the victory today."

'Nobody Goes to Hell': Minister Labeled a Heretic 123

read the rest here...

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=3362554&page=1



I don't know about that last bit  thou'............how many times does bible jesus' speak of 'hell' in the bibbble?  Christianity doesn't make sense.



(Message edited by snakechic on 03/17/2008 03:49:38)

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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

snakechic
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RE:Hell Sells
(Date Posted:03/18/2008 17:32:46)

Could this be as simple as the 'us & them' thing?
That some christians are not willing to give up their idea of 'hell' and are so stuck in that self righteous mode that its not funny anymore?

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

snakechic
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RE:Hell Sells
(Date Posted:03/18/2008 17:59:08)

Btw...I am focusing my comments on the 'congregation'. I hope that's clear?

The pastor gave up his 'hell' doctrine and lost his congregation. Seems these christians wanted their 'threat' of 'hell'?
See what I'm getting at?

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

Guest
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RE:Hell Sells
(Date Posted:03/18/2008 18:24:39)

I remember when this story first came out, and I was pretty surprised that Pearson had gone the universalist route. I remember him back in the day.

 The doctrine of hell isn't going anywhere, and any Christian leader who denies hell will fare badly. The traditional belief in eternal punishment is far too ingrained and cornerstone of the Christian worldview. Christianity has relied alot on fear to control the masses over the years, and hell was it's Ace card. I'm sure the "powers that be" (or those that used to be during the early days of the Church) made sure that hell played a major role and that any belief that excluded hell would be viewed as a horrible heresy. In matters of religion, people like things to stay the same.

To come out with a different view, like Pearson did, is to announce that followers of the religion over the years have been wrong all along, and wrong about something major. And since the doctrine was said to have come from God, it makes it look like God was wrong too. It would shake the foundations of the whole movement and piss people off big time.

As far as the underlying reasons why hell has stayed so popular, I suppose it's the fact that every soap opera needs a dark side of the plotline; a villain and something/someone to fear, crazy disasters,etc... same with religion. Much like snakechic said, people do like horror,gore and things like that. It feeds a need for whatever reason. The absence of hell also would take away from the romance of the "Jesus as redeemer" story, which is a huge emotional draw and source of comfort for people.

snakechic
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RE:Hell Sells
(Date Posted:03/20/2008 18:25:27)

Reply to Guest (03/16/2008 6:25 PM).


  The doctrine of hell isn't going anywhere, and any Christian leader who denies hell will fare badly. The traditional belief in eternal punishment is far too ingrained and cornerstone of the Christian worldview. Christianity has relied alot on fear to control the masses  over the years, and hell was it's Ace card. I'm sure the "powers that be" (or those that used to be during the early days of the Church) made sure that hell played a major role and that any belief that excluded hell would be viewed as a horrible heresy. In matters of religion, people like things to stay the same.

To come out with a  different view,  like Pearson did,  is to announce that  followers of the religion over the years  have been wrong all along, and wrong about something major.  And since the doctrine was said to have come from God, it makes it look like God was wrong too. It would shake the foundations of the whole movement and piss people off big time.

 The absence of hell also would  take away from the romance of the "Jesus as redeemer"  story, which is a huge emotional draw and source of comfort for people.


Thanks for adding your ideas - great post!
 I didn't think of that - the 'all or nothing' thing.
Believers tend to suffer an enormous amount of internal doubt - is that a fair enough statement? ..hence as you say they get pissed off when they see evidence in front of the faces that things in 'christian land' ain't so 'right'.

Of course - how could anyone forget about the 'jesus as redeemer' thing. Yes...it does sound like a 'romance' - great way to put it.


(Message edited by snakechic on 03/20/2008 19:06:32)

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

sunspots
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RE:Hell Sells
(Date Posted:03/22/2008 22:22:50)

I will never forget hearing a radio preacher.... that was all fired up fuck up and yell " ANNNDD UHHH,   HELL IS A WONDERFUL PLACE" stupid asshole could not keep his shit straight

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One theme that is Taboo for American publishers, noted by Vladimir Nabokov:........"the total atheist who lives a happy and useful life, and dies in his sleep at the age of 106."

 Welcome to The Collection of Flashlights!Wolf-eyes ,your eyes break the darkness!
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