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aeroz
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 02:49:40)
Reply to : Lahl
The WORST lies?.......1) That I was an abhorrent abomination that deserved death, but that 'god' would 'heal' me if I only repented of my affliction (how exactly do you do that?) and ask for forgiveness and healing, then I would be 'healed'
2) That I WAS healed, cured, and proof of the miracles of 'god', and not brainwashed into total submission and denial and servitude
3) That all the suffering and abuse I suffered at the hands of the church, xians etc who stripped me of everything I had, coldly, deliberately and efficiently in a single day, was MY OWN FAULT, for not submitting to 'god's healing' in every way.
Number 1 is a huge one. I completely disagree that anyone is worth eternal punishment of the worst kind.
Number 3: wow, it seems like you got too close to a group of fundies and got burned. Have you ever told that story in another thread somewhere? I'd like to read about it.
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I saw this site, and I knew immediately that I was home.
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aeroz
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 02:59:15)
Reply to : RadioOne
Reply to : aerozYeah, I scared/forced myself into believing that one too. It was somewhat fustrating to me at the time I tell you, especially as I sat through Earth Science class.
I can't tell you how overjoyed I am to be here in this forum. Everyone here understands each other; we can all relate. Everywhere else I go online or off when I try to explain these things, people just don't get it. They wonder what's "wrong" with me. They just don't understand where I am coming from.
But yeah, back to your post. I know what you mean. When I was a young earth creationist and in science classes I cringed every time I sat through a lecture in which the age of the earth or origins was discussed. In English 101 the textbook called the creation story a myth. I was fuming angry. All that quarter I went into depression, bad depression. I hated the class. The textbook was also ridiculing fundies about their positions on homosexuality and other topics. I am ashamed of my behavior in that class; I once met with the instructor to discuss my disapproval of the bias of her textbook concerning homosexuality. I am slapping myself to this day.
I can understand your frustration. I remember the frustration--the anger--I felt as a fundie and young earther. I sat there and assumed that my instructor was an arrogant fool trying to brainwash the class. But it was just the opposite--I had been brainwashed in the cult of fundamentalism.
I remember the internal wars I was waging at the time. I "knew " that I was right and everyone else was wrong. All the science classes (Astronomy, biology, geology, physics, chemistry, paleontology, etc.) were erroneous. But I remember the nagging doubt in the back of my mind that I suppressed--the doubt that caused me so much fear and anxiety and worry. It ate away at my soul. By the time I left fundamentalism, I had nearly drowned in it.
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I saw this site, and I knew immediately that I was home.
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aeroz
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 03:08:28)
Actually, now that I think about it, the biggest lie that was told to me was the the Bible was 100% absolute, inerrant, perfect literal truth, completely free from error, even copyist errors. Because that's the root from which all the other branches of the fundamentalism I experienced, sprang--including the young earth thing.
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I saw this site, and I knew immediately that I was home.
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aeroz
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 03:19:22)
Reply to : bakagaijin
When those other christians told me they were my friends, i think that was the worst lie i was told.Friends only as long as i conformed to thier ideas. Once i stepped out of the norms even a little bit, people turned their back on me.That truth is black and white and there is no room for interpretation, that was pretty bad too.
"Truth is black and white," etc. I know, I know. Wow I love this place. 
That reminds me of something my fundie dad told me when I was talking with him about gender issues and the church. I said that I didn't like the church we were going to, and one of the reasons was that they were too conservative on their positions about women. He shook his head, did the one facial expression, and said, nope, I'm afraid that it's straightforward what "God says" about women. There is absolutely no room, not one micromillimeter, for a change or a re-interpretation or questioning.
As a side-note, he also believes that global warming is a conspiracy and that...ok, get this...the cause of any warming is actually.........heat radiating from................................side-walks.
Shortly before, I had found out for the first time that my dad didn't vote for women unless they were more right-wing than the other men running. I found this out at age 19. I asked him about it, and he said it was because women don't stand up for "values" as strongly as men do. They waver. They cave into political pressure before men do. In other words, they're weaker. He also meant that they are too open-minded, which, to him, is a bad thing.
This really is revealing a lot to me. One of the reasons I still fear that maybe women are indeed inferior to men, is my dad and his positions, and the things he has said to me all my life about gender issues.
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I saw this site, and I knew immediately that I was home.
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aeroz
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 03:46:30)
Reply to : cdolares
That the Bible is inerrant - it isn't. According the much revered King James Version so highly vaunted in my circles, the earth is both flat and the center of universe. The sky is an impenetrable dome above the earth. Jesus was to come again before some of the people hearing him make the claim would die. Solomon, in parallel accounts, had both 4,000 and 40,000 stalls of horses. Etc. (I've yet to hear anyone explain just WHICH KJV is the inerrant one - the 1611, or the 1789 version with all the error corrections? I've heard claims both ways, plus comments that BOTH versions are inerrant, despite the many differences between the 2 translations.)
That "people who don't believe like we do" are willful sinners, shaking their fists in the face of God, and ignoring clear teaching of the Bible. That isn't true. People, generally, take their religion at least seriously enough to believe that it is Right and Good. People aren't running around with their heart-felt beliefs, thinking at the same time that those beliefs are a cheap cover up for the One True Religion. Never minding that, the Bible tends to be vague or contradictory on many things. This includes key doctrines such as salvation (do you have to be baptized or don't you to be "saved" - do you have to have works or don't you to be "saved" and so on), so much so that it's easy to see how different people can read the Bible and see things differently without being intellectually dishonest. Call this the "black and white" lie - not everything is black and white. There's lots of gray.
That the genocidal God of the Old Testament who repeatedly orders the wanton slaughter of entire populations is the same God who loved the world so much that he sent his Son to die for it. That's so severely out of whack that I can hardly grasp it, nor do I accept it as true. Something's amiss with that one.
That the Bible is the preserved Word of God for man. If what God wants the world to know and believe is written in the Bible, then why is the Bible so difficult to make plain sense out of in many places? Should something so important as how we interact with God be open to interpretation, or to misinterpretation? You'd think God would make it so simple, we couldn't possibly screw it up. Why would people through the centuries spend lifetimes in dedicated religious study just to wrap their brain around the contents of the Bible (in other words, why should they have to)? The consequences for getting the Bible wrong are (apparently) eternal damnation, so if the scholars and major religious denominations who are supposed to know these things not only don't agree, but sharply disagree at many turns, where the heck does that leave the layman? As best as I can tell, I am SCREWED. Now, to be fair, I've not thrown out the Bible completely. But the lie is that the Bible is word for word, verse for verse, chapter for chapter the inspired Holy Word of God. It's something...but I don't know just what it is at this point.
YOU MUST HAVE COME FROM THE CHURCH I USED TO GO TO!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tell me, was it in WA state??????????????
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bornagainbikergirl
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 06:34:39)
What were the worst lies they told YOU? and, DID jesus fill the emptiness?
Good grief, where do I start!!!! Here are a few....
1) Famous quote used at EVERY church function - Jesus loves you, and (get this) so do I. (gag a maggot) I wish I had a dollar for everytime I had that spoken to my face. Never mind the dagger I got in the back later if I did not walk the "straight and narrow."
2) It is a sin to wear jewelry. After all, Satan wanted to outshine the glory of God, so therefore, If we (namely, women) wear jewelry we are acting as agents of Satan, because (gasp!!) jewelry is shiny. Hey, I kid you not!!
3) it is a sin for a woman to cut her hair. A woman's hair is her glory and is a kind of "spiritual covering". It is used as a weapon in spiritual warfare. Evil spirits can get into the "spiritual backdoor" of a family if the woman cuts her hair. Never mind that the man as the " spiritual head of the household" could be an arrogant son of a bitch. Women are always "the bad guy". No pun intended of course.
4) Women are not supposed to wear pants. "things of the man are not of the woman" "things of the woman are not of the man". Hey dipshit, men in biblical days did not wear pants either. Especially Levis, they were not invented yet. What's up with that?!?
5) Pastors are our "spiritual fathers." Hell, no wonder the world is in such a mess.
6) Pastors are the shepherds, the church members are the sheep. I guess that is why pastors feel they have a god given right to mentally and emotionally slaughter their "flocks"
7) "I go to prepare a place for you." I guess it must be a mental facility. After all, if we do manage to survive religion, we are permanently maimed for life.
8) Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel. We must evangelize. No, leave it all for Benny Hinn to do. After all, he is a professional performer. Make him earn some of that money he milks from all of his followers. Hey, wait a minute!! He wears all kinds of fancy jewelry. Could it be that he is an agent of Satan? Man, that was a REVELATION!!!!
9) MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU!!!! Oops, wrong, I was mixing reality with fiction. Hey, I wonder if Darth Vadar is the antichrist. If he is, man, what a snazzy dresser.
I am losing it. Time to go!!!! See what fundamentalism will do to a person!!!!
I am diagonally parked in a parallel universe!!!!
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Spirituality is easier on the back of
a Harley Davidson.
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The Collective
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67# |
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 06:41:10)
Reply to : aeroz
wow, it seems like you got too close to a group of fundies and got burned. Have you ever told that story in another thread somewhere? I'd like to read about it.
No. It was not a 'group of fundies' that burned me. It was, and still is, xianity on the whole. My story has been told many times here since I first joined 3 1/2 years ago. Unfortunately, many of the threads have disappeared into the oblivion of lost archives. Tho you will still find many 'parts' of my story in different threads. Its a little too complicated to tell in just a few sentances, just know that its extremely complicated, intertwined with other issues that most people wouldn't have a clue about, so its hard to get into an explanation without being cryptic about a lot of things, or getting too involved in explaining everything and going on and on and on. Kinda embarrassed to keep retelling it, cos I think that everyone thats already heard it before is going to get sick of hearing about it and tell me to shut up lol As for all the creationist/6000 year old earth crap, I was totally brainwashed by all that too. Its taken a long time to get my head around whats real science, but it all came down to having to relearn everything, and try to ignore the programming trying to tell you that what you're learning is lies etc etc. There was a lot of pseudo-scientific bullshit that the creationist use, and that confused me as it was very convincing, and you really need to directly look at the real scientific evidence that addresses those issues. As Yoda once said...... "you must unlearn what you have learned" Lahl
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snakechic
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 07:51:05)
Reply to : bornagainbikergirl
. (gag a maggot)
I love that......I'm a collector of sayings'
Yeah ditto to all that -females copped it -what a deal for the males in the church, immediate superiority and in some cases don't like to leave that little perk behind -- did you go to the SDA's? no matter its all very familiar and stock standard except that last bit
After all, if we do manage to survive religion, we are permanently maimed for life.
yeah sad. I'd say 'changed' and for me adding a certain healthy skeptism towards all religion for my future life. Never again! Bikergirl! Remember thos magic slates we had as kids. If you didn't like what you had drawn, you had only to pull the top sheet up and it would disappear? But....the line stayed on the black stuff underneath forever. - thats a metaphor for the interaction conscious an unconscious mind. ......and to me the best way to see 'permanently mained'. ?
Ever heard of a 'water bottle'?
Reply to Lahl
"you must unlearn what you have learned"
When I read that I felt like I was reading 'you must unclean what you have cleaned'...........silly me I flipped into the SDA's mind - that's all I seemed to hear....unclean this unclean that, un....bloody belivabubble
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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RadioOne
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 08:46:13)
Reply to : Lahl
As Yoda once said...... "you must unlearn what you have learned"
That's exactly what I did when I dove into the Fundamentalist pit in the first place. The whole deal about Hell literally being in the center of the Earth also drove me nuts during Earth Science when learning about the interior of the Earth. I would become depressed thinking about all the people in there. I would also wonder how a place could be literally there even though the core of the Earth is confirmed to be solid because only certain seismic waves can go through. I eventually made up some odd deal about cross-demensional (I really don't know...) stuff to rectify something that is supposedly on the spiritual plane (I say this because of the "spiritual bodies" people are supposed to have after death) being on this plane of existance. The explanation I had was probably weird and based on pure conjecture of the little bit I have learned about other demensions, so it may not make any sense. I do not think I will post it because it was probably so outlandish. It was odd indeed.
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"You must remember yourself--be acutely aware of yourself being present to yourself in this point in time."
--Dr. Quentin Dinardo, professor
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