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Chirpy
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31#
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Registered:03/06/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/11/2005 10:14:39)
About filling the emptiness. Becoming a christian did in the beginning as it opened up an area of life and provided new interests as well as bringing me into contact with types of people I had never met before and also different age groups. But sooner or later when I gave up my old interests and friends my life became even narrower than before. Depression crept up on me gradually so that I didn't even know I was depressed. It was only when I gave up going to church I realised how free I was, but then again I had something to give up going to church for - going out in a group on Sundays to take a long country walk over moors or on long distance foot paths. It was only when I made brief returns to church I realised how depressing it was.
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CatholicSeeker
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32#
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Rank:none
Score:2
Posts:2
Registered:04/13/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/13/2005 23:26:04)
This is very interesting to me. I'm a 21 year old Catholic who is just beginning to try to live out my faith in the real world, and definitely struggling. Sometimes fundamentalists almost frighten me into going along with them. Other times, I'm tempted to be even more liberal and support homosexuality and be opposed to all war, among other things.
It's sad that so many of you have had such bad experiences. I think I have been damaged greatly by the fundamentalism I've been exposed to, and I don't blame any of you. But many Christians, and many Catholics, are not like that. I beleive that intellect and faith always have to work together. I beleive that tithing should be done carefully, and we should do it just because people need our help and not always expect to be blessed in return.
We also beleive that the state of a person's soul is always a mystery; the Bible says NOT TO JUDGE PEOPLE. I may occasionally have to tell someone that I beleive what they're doing could send them into the state called "Hell" , but ultimately only God knows their heart.
We beleive that, if you take the Bible literally, it DOES contradict itself. We beleive many stories in the Old testament are myths. Sacred myths, but myths nonetheless. God is so big and mysterious that humans make many errors in recording his revelations.
If I met any of you in person, I probably would have an intelligent response to any question you would ask. But I would always be patient enough to let you rant for a little while first.
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We are Christians who don't see the world in black and white. We see it in color.
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CatholicSeeker
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33#
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Rank:none
Score:2
Posts:2
Registered:04/13/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/13/2005 23:28:48)
Oh, and by the way, isn't my quote at the bottom awesome? I heard it from a group of post-modernist Christians in the magazine Christianity Today.
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We are Christians who don't see the world in black and white. We see it in color.
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snakechic
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34#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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(Date Posted:04/14/2005 01:38:18)
Reply to : CatholicSeeker
But I would always be patient enough to let you rant for a little while first.
Sounds awfully patronising - I hope you wouldn't expect the same 'patience' from someone like me to your little gospel message err..rant.
I probably would have an intelligent response to any question you would ask.
I'm not going to go there
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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VioletsApostateSoul
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35#
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Rank:none
Score:61
Posts:61
Registered:02/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/14/2005 06:04:16)
Reply to : CatholicSeeker
I'm sure you are very well meaning, but your message does come across with a bit of a "oh, you poor wounded things-- Jesus will make it better." We are on this board because we have grown disgusted with and hostile towards that attitude, no matter how nicely a person trys to say it. You probably will not get a very warm reception here. You will find that a lot of us are like... wounded cats (sorry guys. It's the first thing that comes to mind). Normally, we would never bother you, but if you cross us now, we are likely to scratch out your eyes.
I am glad that you have found a spirituality that speaks to you. I do not have any questions to ask of you. I am sorry-- you may find this a bit arrogant-- but I can pretty much guess most of the answers (no matter how "intelligent"). I have heard them before. Over and over and over. I rejected those answers. I am here now.
Beware of the cats!
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John_Galt
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36#
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Rank:none
Score:508
Posts:508
Registered:03/14/2002
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/14/2005 16:24:35)
While this website focusses on christian fundamentalism, which by its traditional definition is protestant, there is little solace to be found in the popish religion, which has all of the flaws of fundamentalism.
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Il n'y a que deux puissances au monde, le sabre et l'esprit: à la longue, le sabre est toujours vaincu par l'esprit - Napoléon Ier
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SeasideSolitude
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37#
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Rank:none
Score:15
Posts:15
Registered:11/21/2001
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/14/2005 18:09:44)
Reply to : CatholicSeeker
I beleive that intellect and faith always have to work together. ... The Bible says NOT TO JUDGE PEOPLE. I may occasionally have to tell someone that I beleive what they're doing could send them into the state called "Hell"
Sorry but we've heard this many a time. You feel that your faith is tempered with reason and intellect and yet you believe in a god that is sending most of us humans to hell and you think it's okay to worship such a god. I say shame on you! If you have to have religion at least pick a god that isn't so vicious.
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Religion is like any addiction ... at first it feels good and then it slowly sucks your humanity out of you.
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rhiana
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38#
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Rank:none
Score:469
Posts:469
Registered:09/08/2002
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/16/2005 23:49:13)
Reply to : CatholicSeeker
I'll buck the trend and say "welcome". And then qualify that by pointing out that you've come here, this is our safe place, and if people snap at you/rant at you/say something about your faith that will make you uncomfortable, that's your problem, not ours though we're not out to persecute you, personally.
I think I have been damaged greatly by the fundamentalism I've been exposed to, and I don't blame any of you. But many Christians, and many Catholics, are not like that. I beleive that intellect and faith always have to work together.
To echo what the other said, this comes over a little patronising, "I don't blame any of you." I plies you think we made a mistake somewhere along our backsliding way, something most of us here would challenge.
We know that not all Christians are bad. But think of it this way, there's a woman, and she's been raped. So she freaks out every time a man comes near her. Logically she knows this man has nothing to do with her being raped, and isn't going to hurt her, but her instinctive reaction is to lash out/hide. We've been hurt, we get triggered, we lash out/hide. Unfortunatly, many Christians are unintentionally triggering (and some are intentionally so, and that just makes the whoe thing a whole lot harder. Most Christians who come here, come to witness, so sorry about the inate skepticism that greets you.)
Stick around if you want to, we can all learn from each other, just be aware of who's here.
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sunspots
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39#
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Rank:none
Score:152
Posts:152
Registered:06/02/2002
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/17/2005 06:41:34)
one perplexing one is my idiot mother's contention that I somehow "rejected" something!
The fallout of a lie long ago helped poison my life....... back in the 30's my mothers dad was a drunk..... and her little brother died from some disease.......at the kids funeral some goofball halfwit hillbilly relative "preacher" claimed that God snuffed the kid because his dad drank. My mother and her idiot family swallowed this bullshit without question... my mother has spent her whole life living a lie.... citing the above as an indisputable truth.....the idiot just could not understand that I figured out that was bullshit from jump.
my first memory of being drug of to a goofball institutionalized mental illness xtian baptist mind gulag was sitting there amazed that all these people were lying to themselves.
I missed out of so much when growing up......... the worst of which was no real guidance.... just attempted bullshit
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One theme that is Taboo for American publishers, noted by Vladimir Nabokov:........"the total atheist who lives a happy and useful life, and dies in his sleep at the age of 106."
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Voltaire
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40#
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Rank:none
Score:1490
Posts:1490
Registered:07/08/2001
Time spent: 15377 hours
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(Date Posted:04/17/2005 07:01:32)
I missed out of so much when growing up......... the worst of which was no real guidance.... just attempted bullshit .
A lot of us missed out on a lot when we were growing up. I can't tell you how many times it would have been nice to spend Saturday with my family and friends sans church taking up half the day. All the rules and regulations of the things we weren't supposed to do on Sabbath taking up half of every weekend. All the trips we could have gone on, and so forth. Do you realize I was an Adventist for 40 years, keeping the Sabbath almost every weekend the whole time. That's 2080 Sabbaths, or over 5 years!
*sigh*
But I'm out now and free of that now. And oddly enough I'm still so in the habit of thanking gawd for everything, I still find myself occasionally wanting to thank him for freeing myself of my religion!
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Zombies, Unicorns, Devils, Sea Monsters, Satyrs, Dragons, Six Winged Angels, Gods, Demons, Witches, Astrologers, A walking & talking snake, Magical fruit, Talking donkeys, human headed six-winged beasts, Ghosts. All that stuff is in the Bible and yet they tell me it"s not mythology?
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rhiana
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41#
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Rank:none
Score:469
Posts:469
Registered:09/08/2002
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/17/2005 20:29:30)
Reply to : Voltaire
And oddly enough I'm still so in the habit of thanking gawd for everything, I still find myself occasionally wanting to thank him for freeing myself of my religion!
I want him to be there to thank. Sometimes. Doesn't sound that odd to me.
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VioletsApostateSoul
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42#
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Rank:none
Score:61
Posts:61
Registered:02/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/17/2005 22:50:12)
Reply to : rhiana and Voltaire
Voltaire: And oddly enough I'm still so in the habit of thanking gawd for everything, I still find myself occasionally wanting to thank him for freeing myself of my religion!
rhiana: I want him to be there to thank. Sometimes. Doesn't sound that odd to me.
I just thought of another lie: God answers prayer. The fundies spend so much time telling us that god hears every prayer and cares for everyone. The fundies I worshiped told me that I must not believe in myself and fix my own problems, I must ask god. If god does not answer my prayer, then I must learn to live without for that is god's will. Either that, or I just didnt have enough faith when asking. Or, there was sin separating me from him, so he just couldnt hear me.
It was during my battle with depression when the thin ice of my faith finally gave out. I had spent the first nine months of my depression praying for release from it. One day it just seemed to click-- there would be no help from heaven, so if I wanted to get better, I had to do it myself. And I did. I got off the meds two months later. Without divine help.
But it was (and still is) agony to know that god is not there to answer... the logical conclusion that everything I have believed my entire life is lies... that is pain. When you come into true disbelief after the complete abandon that is christianity... that is having your heart ripped out and handed to you. Atheism is painful. Agnosticism is painful. They are painful to me because I hope so badly for god to be true. The little girl in me wants a daddy god to be there to hear my prayers and rescue me... but the sad reality is that I must heal myself and fix my own problems.
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Voltaire
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43#
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Rank:none
Score:1490
Posts:1490
Registered:07/08/2001
Time spent: 15377 hours
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(Date Posted:04/18/2005 04:20:37)
I just thought of another lie: God answers prayer.
Quite true. Their "answer to prayer" explanations are another one of those that, no matter what happens, it's seen as an affirmation of their theory. If you get your answer to prayer, then it's seen his answer. If you don't get your answer to prayer, it's still seen as an answer because god in his wisdom has chosen not to do what you want. You might as well pray to a rock.
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Zombies, Unicorns, Devils, Sea Monsters, Satyrs, Dragons, Six Winged Angels, Gods, Demons, Witches, Astrologers, A walking & talking snake, Magical fruit, Talking donkeys, human headed six-winged beasts, Ghosts. All that stuff is in the Bible and yet they tell me it"s not mythology?
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VioletsApostateSoul
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44#
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Rank:none
Score:61
Posts:61
Registered:02/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/19/2005 23:10:22)
Reply to : Voltaire
You might as well pray to a rock.
You know, that is an amusing idea! I am going to have to get a rock and set up "The Church of the Holy and Most Perfect Rock." Lets see... I will need: a list of ambiguous rules with terrible punishments (stoning  ), a set of confusing myths about the rock, and oh yes, you must give money to the rock, or it will come and roll over you in your sleep crushing you for your disobedience.
I will have one up on the fundys, too. Everyone can use their five senses to "experience" the rock, unlike their invisible sky god. And then I can use that verse about the stones crying out to show them that even their own bible says that rocks are alive and capable of great feats.
Maybe I will just give all my fundy relatives rocks for christmas this year. *eg*
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snakechic
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45#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2005 00:37:43)
I love my rock so much............
In the event that I appear to have sex on the brain...let me explain (I've been collecting bait) I'm doing a little trolling myself ....secretly I'm getting a sexual thrill out of it but don't confront me because I'll only deny it.
Has there been much mention of the Biggest and Bestest lie - The stories, parables, teachings, memes, etc.. regarding SEX....note how the terms mentioned are subsituted for the word LIE.
THe language of xianity (pardon to those who are) and fundamentalism is constructed in a way as to decieve, confuse and detract. That is a lie.
back to sex
Masturbation.........a lie.......a sin.......its not even in the babble. but thats not the point.
the guilt and shame thats been engendered thoughout generations is pathetic but at the same time sad sad sad...
sex between same sex couple, sex between consenting adults, sex , sex.....is a political platform...
there is no privacy left. Yet the political fight isn't focusing on this bottom line...that god is watching.
Maybe we should cut out the middle man and get down and fuck god.
(sorry I'm a bit depressed today)
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Voltaire
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46#
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Rank:none
Score:1490
Posts:1490
Registered:07/08/2001
Time spent: 15377 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2005 06:08:11)
Reply to: VioletsApostateSoul
Actually all you have to do is a search for "Rock" in the bible and you'll quickly find lots of verses for your "theology." Here's just 2 samples I found that are pretty funny:
Deu 32:3-4 -- "Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."
Deu 32:15 -- "But Jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked: thou art waxen fat, thou art grown thick, thou art covered with fatness; then he forsook God which made him, and lightly esteemed the Rock of his salvation."
See, even the Bible capitalises "Rock", which means it's a deity!
Reply to: snakechic
Masturbation.........a lie.......a sin.......its not even in the babble. but thats not the point.
I can't even begin to describe all the suffering I endured because of Auntie Ellen's teachings about "self abuse." And you're right, there is no mention whatsoever in the Bible.
Maybe we should cut out the middle man and get down and fuck god.
It'd be more interesting to see gawd fuck himself. After all he's omnipotent, so can do anything.
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Zombies, Unicorns, Devils, Sea Monsters, Satyrs, Dragons, Six Winged Angels, Gods, Demons, Witches, Astrologers, A walking & talking snake, Magical fruit, Talking donkeys, human headed six-winged beasts, Ghosts. All that stuff is in the Bible and yet they tell me it"s not mythology?
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SeasideSolitude
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47#
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Rank:none
Score:15
Posts:15
Registered:11/21/2001
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2005 14:57:24)
Reply to : Voltaire
It'd be more interesting to see gawd fuck himself. After all he's omnipotent, so can do anything.
So another name for the Holy Trinity would be the Heavenly Menage-et-trios 
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Religion is like any addiction ... at first it feels good and then it slowly sucks your humanity out of you.
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VioletsApostateSoul
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48#
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Rank:none
Score:61
Posts:61
Registered:02/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2005 15:11:39)
Reply to : SeasideSolitude
So another name for the Holy Trinitywould be the Heavenly Menage-et-trios
Now that would be a porno worth watching... and hey, come to think of it, it would also be right up the alley for those fundys who masturbate while thinking of gawd.
Catholics get an even better version. The virgin Mary gang bang porno!
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AthenaMarina
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49#
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Registered:08/22/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/21/2005 00:30:56)
Re Masturbation, Well there are two sides to this, I'm going to discuss both please hear me out! Someone said the bible doesn't say masturbation is wrong BUT there IS a guy called Onan who "spills his seed" because I don't know he didn't want to have a kid maybe?! ANYWAY God punishes him in someway for that, I forget how or at least is VERY pissed off at him. A fundy COULD use that as an argument against masturbation EXCEPT the world then was underpopulated and they wanted and thought they needed to "be fruitful and multiply" but NOW it is OVERCROWDED so it's more likely god was pissed cos Onan didn't help make a baby rather than cos he was jackin off ! AND you CAN'T use that argument today because like I said the world is overcrowded it's not like the world is gonna suffer because you don't have a kid!! The OTHER verse christians sometimes quote is well any verse about not thinking lustful thoughts. But really it seems a tad unfair. Not EVERYONE marries what about those who NEVER marry are they supposed to NEVER have sex with another person and NEVER have sex with themself EITHER? AND sex and masturbation (stds and unwanted pregnancies aside, one needs to be CAREFUL) are both actually meant to be very GOOD for you, very healthy, doctors have PROVEN it!! If sex was only meant to say make babies WHY does it (alone or in company) feel so damn GOOD?! Would god have made it feel so good and then said NOPE only in special circumstances? Re sex, right, my first blind date apart from being ugly (IMHO) well we also ended up having a sort of argument about the sex thing he was part of some kind of ministry or whatever encouraging people to wait until marriage to have sex. But I argued, what about people who don't GET married or if they marry late (or if they are gay I guess you could add.) I married at 29 I did EXTREMELY well to hold out until 25 and then I couldn't wait no more!!! I'd had ENOUGH of saying NO and then someone said "Well I suppose you'll get married at 30 maybe 40" and back then, it sounded so OLD!!! (It's NOT, I know that NOW)......
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Yes I AM too cool for church! Jesus is NOT waaay cool I AM! Am I"m real and he"s NOT SO...!
I used to be into Jesus
But now I"ve kicked the habit
Now I have REALLY seen "the light" and know the REAL truth and the Truth - not the lie of christianity! - has set me free!
"..When you"re inside the pig, it"s so warm and comfortable and feels wonderful. Then you get out and you realise the hideous monster that"s been accomodating you!" (From a book, talking about during and after bad relationships but SO appropriate here too!)
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Voltaire
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50#
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Rank:none
Score:1490
Posts:1490
Registered:07/08/2001
Time spent: 15377 hours
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(Date Posted:04/21/2005 04:50:49)
Someone said the bible doesn't say masturbation is wrong BUT there IS a guy called Onan who "spills his seed" because I don't know he didn't want to have a kid maybe?
The sin Onan committed was refusing to make the wife of his brother pregnant after the brother died. According to the Levitical law, if a man died his closest kin was required to give the widow a child and the child was supposed to belong to the widow. Since Onan realized it wasn't going to be his child, he pulled out and ejaculated on the floor. This is quite obvious from the verse:
Gen 38:8 -- "And Judah said unto Onan, Go in unto thy brother's wife, and marry her, and raise up seed to thy brother. And Onan knew that the seed should not be his; and it came to pass, when he went in unto his brother's wife, that he spilled it on the ground, lest that he should give seed to his brother."
Nothing about masturbation here; he could have wanked off without going and having sex with his brother's wife.
And of course this made god so mad he killed Onan also:
Gen 38:10 -- "And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also."
The hilarious thing about this is if the fundies are right and god kills people who masturbate then most of the world would have died long ago. Most statistics I've heard are that around 96% of the population is in the habit of pleasuring themselves. Why aren't most people struck down by god when they start "doing it?" As usual the fundies aren't thinking very much.
The other issue is: why is masturbation dangerous to health? Fundies seem to think there is som health danger but seem to forget there's nothing going on in the body that doesn't happen during regular sexual intercourse. If masturbation is unhealthy then so is regular sex.
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Zombies, Unicorns, Devils, Sea Monsters, Satyrs, Dragons, Six Winged Angels, Gods, Demons, Witches, Astrologers, A walking & talking snake, Magical fruit, Talking donkeys, human headed six-winged beasts, Ghosts. All that stuff is in the Bible and yet they tell me it"s not mythology?
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VioletsApostateSoul
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51#
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Rank:none
Score:61
Posts:61
Registered:02/10/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/21/2005 17:11:55)
Fundies seem to think there is som health danger but seem to forget there's nothing going on in the body that doesn't happen during regular sexual intercourse. If masturbation is unhealthy then so is regular sex.
Seems to me that fundys want people to believe that sex is unhealthy and dangerous. What better way to steer all that energy towards "doing gawd's work"?
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Voltaire
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52#
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Rank:none
Score:1490
Posts:1490
Registered:07/08/2001
Time spent: 15377 hours
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(Date Posted:04/22/2005 02:03:44)
Well that's probably the hidden agenda behind a lot of their rules and regulations: they want everybody focused on the church.
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Zombies, Unicorns, Devils, Sea Monsters, Satyrs, Dragons, Six Winged Angels, Gods, Demons, Witches, Astrologers, A walking & talking snake, Magical fruit, Talking donkeys, human headed six-winged beasts, Ghosts. All that stuff is in the Bible and yet they tell me it"s not mythology?
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snakechic
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53#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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(Date Posted:04/22/2005 03:10:28)
or re focus on it a certain way...( ie.the womb) ...blah what rubbish..... maybe playing with my 'budgie' is also 'holy' work'...
DOn't have time to comment (pardon) but I'm not very good at the biblical references anyway.
borrowed from http://www.aboverubies.org/articles/Womb.html take a peek its awful!
16. IT IS A HOLY PLACEffice ffice" / onload='javascript:showImageWidth(this,600,600)' class='AutoImageWidthTopic' style='cursor:poionter'>
The womb is a holy place and the entrance to the womb is holy. It is a type of the temple in the Old Testament where the Holy Place was separated from the Holy of Holies by a thick veil. The only person who could enter the Holy of Holies was the High Priest. God has also created the hymen in a virgin to protect the entrance of the womb. It is a type of the veil that protected the Holy of Holies and could only be entered by the High Priest.
The hymen, the protection to the womb, should only be broken by one man. God's plan is that on the wedding night, two virgins come together and the hymen (the veil) is broken by the one who will become her husband - the priest of her home. Read Deuteronomy 22:13-21; 1 Corinthians 3:16,17; 1 Corinthians 6:18-20; 2 Corinthians 6:17,18.
Reprinted from THE POWER OF MOTHERHOOD -
A STUDY MANUAL FOR MOTHERS.
Available for $18.00 plus shipping
ABOVE RUBIES
PO BOX 68-1687
FRANKLIN TN 37068-1687
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Voltaire
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54#
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Rank:none
Score:1490
Posts:1490
Registered:07/08/2001
Time spent: 15377 hours
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(Date Posted:04/22/2005 06:51:42)
Holy shitoosky, that has to be the damned funniest thing I've ever read in many years! I just laughed and laughed over and over again! I just goes on and on, one hilarious side splitting holwer after another! If god wasn't dead before he read this, he is now because he died laughing.
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Zombies, Unicorns, Devils, Sea Monsters, Satyrs, Dragons, Six Winged Angels, Gods, Demons, Witches, Astrologers, A walking & talking snake, Magical fruit, Talking donkeys, human headed six-winged beasts, Ghosts. All that stuff is in the Bible and yet they tell me it"s not mythology?
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lordtyger9
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55#
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Registered:04/23/2005
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(Date Posted:04/23/2005 19:20:42)
Reply to : PhoenixFireWalker
Re Masturbation, Well there are two sides to this, I'm going to discuss both please hear me out! Someone said the bible doesn't say masturbation is wrong BUT there IS a guy called Onan who "spills his seed" because I don't know he didn't want to have a kid maybe?! ANYWAY God punishes him in someway for that, I forget how or at least is VERY pissed off at him. A fundy COULD use that as an argument against masturbation EXCEPT the world then was underpopulated and they wanted and thought they needed to "be fruitful and multiply" but NOW it is OVERCROWDED so it's more likely god was pissed cos Onan didn't help make a baby rather than cos he was jackin off !AND you CAN'T use that argument todaybecause like I said the world is overcrowded it's not like the world is gonna suffer because you don't have a kid!! The OTHER verse christi
The bit about Onan was that in those times if a man did not marry his dead brother's wife and get her pregnant, his ex-sister in law went back with all her flocks etc. to her family, thus Onan was supposed to make sure that she didn't leave and he didn't do as he was told.
Naturally the Fundies like to find their own meaning in the bible and pay no attention to anything like facts. In this partucular case I think this incorrect view of Masturbation started with the Roman Catholic Church. Some one correct me if they are an ex-catholic and I am wrong. 
Two of the books I have found to be very informative and helpful are Isaac Asimov's books on the bible, if one is interested in them look for Asimov's Guide to the Bible: The Old Testament and Asimov's Guide to the Bible: The new Testament, I happen to have both and I have read them several times. 
As for lies I was told, I had to live with my grandmother while I was attending high school and when she would get mad she would say that I was possessd by the devil and try to drive the devil out of me in jesus name
This is the one who spoke in tongues every sunday at her friend's house while I had to set next to her as this was where the required service took place. I was 18, but I hadn't graduated from high school and I had to stay until then.
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Curiosity killed the cat,
but satisfaction brought it back.
Blessings, Denny
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Chirpy
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56#
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Registered:03/06/2003
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/23/2005 23:51:00)
I read the Above Rubies website article and while I wouldn't agree with it all I do take on board the fact that often hysterectomies are carried out unnecessarily and it was the feminists who first raised concern about about this gynaecological carving up of women. The fundies have jumped on board. However this article sees woman as merely a womb on stilts and little more. In fact Professor Steve Jones, the famous geneticist, believes that the female in all species of living things is the default and as some species breed asexually there is only a female and not a male. The male of the species is only there to provide genetic variation as asexual breeding merely produces clones of the parent.
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snakechic
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57#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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(Date Posted:04/24/2005 02:03:59)
Reply to : Voltaire
Holy shitoosky, that has to be the damned funniest thing I've ever read in many years! I just laughed and laughed over and over again! I just goes on and on, one hilarious side splitting holwer after another! If god wasn't dead before he read this, he is now because he died laughing.
Yeah! its the best laugh
My partner and I read it together the other morning...it sounds much much better being read in a masculine voice...hilarous.
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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snakechic
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58#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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(Date Posted:04/25/2005 07:21:45)
Reply to : Chirpy
I read the Above Rubies website article and while I wouldn't agree with it all I do take on board the fact that often hysterectomies are carried out unnecessarily and it was the feminists who first raised concern about about this gynaecological carving up of women. The fundies have jumped on board. However this article sees woman as merely a womb on stilts and little more. In fact Professor Steve Jones, the famous geneticist, believes that the female in all species ofliving thingsis the default and assome species breed asexually there is only a female and not a male. The male of the species is only there to provide genetic variation as asexual breeding merely produces clones of the parent.
I agree that hysterectomies are over prescribed - effective and efficient... for the medical profession that is. Another point is that often women may choose this treatment for 'bad' periods....
so not only are women viewed as 'wombs on stilts' but unclean as well. 
It occured to me that surrogracy could be a bone of contention with either side of the fence? Fundies and feminists... I personally find 'rent' a womb not a charitable gift of life but I've just been listening to the news regarding the Michael Jackson case so I'm probably put off even more.
I don't know the specific biological dodads but isn't the female also the (default) but stronger and more evolved...okaay I'm ready for it - the flack...
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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aeroz
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59#
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Rank:none
Score:35
Posts:35
Registered:05/23/2005
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 00:40:55)
Reply to : PhoenixFireWalker
Also, what lies were YOU told e.g. in church? I remember a song "I was lied to but you told the truth cos you are the truth, I was lied to but you told the truth to me.." Well I WAS lied to but the truth was NOT Jesus, THAT was the lie!
Oh, and then there's the "God has got someone for you" lie. I AM happily married now but he's NOT a Christian and if I'd only been willing to accept a Christian partner, I'd probably still be alone. I know girls who are miserable cos they are single (not that I am saying everyone who is single is miserable, not at ALL!) and yet they'll possibly be single forever cos they only will accept a Christian!!! What if they never FIND an appropriate Christian? I have a MUCH wider selection a MUCH better chance of finding a life partner, which, maybe I have! I'm sure some people, Christian or not spend their WHOLE lives single - they're a minority but I'm sure they exist!
Oh and the one about gays being a corruptive infludence on children!
Or oh women who have an abortion are selfish! NO! Sometimes in a way foolish to get INTO the situation but it can happen! and thinking of the best for themselves AND the baby! Knowing it would be better NOT to have and raise this baby - for the baby's sake!
So, what lies were YOU told?
The biggest lie of all was the lie of the age of the earth and universe. I was taught that God created the heavens and the earth around 6,000 years ago, that Satan was deceiving all the scientists who thought otherwise (which would be about 99.9% of them), and that all "true" scientific knowledge proves a young earth and a young universe. I was told that humans were specially created in the Garden of Eden and that all the evolutionists were also deceived by Satan. I now call this the Satan science conspiracy.
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I saw this site, and I knew immediately that I was home.
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RadioOne
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60#
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Registered:07/18/2004
Time spent: 0 hours
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(Date Posted:05/26/2005 00:45:39)
Reply to : aeroz
Yeah, I scared/forced myself into believing that one too. It was somewhat fustrating to me at the time I tell you, especially as I sat through Earth Science class.
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"You must remember yourself--be acutely aware of yourself being present to yourself in this point in time."
--Dr. Quentin Dinardo, professor
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