It's certainly not selfish for you to be talking about this--and you're not stupid or weak.  There are plenty of churches that you can go to where you won't be under any pressure and you can just be yourself and keep your own identity.  You don't have to leave your personality at the door or be a fake.

I remember being where you're at now, with all the uncertain feelings.  There is much more leeway than you think.  Fundamentalism puts you in a little cage.  You're not in a little cage--you have plenty of room to move!  Spread your wings!!  What you think of as lukewarm churches that aren't worth your time are just fine--go visit.

You may think you're in pieces, but you're not.  You're whole and Jesus loves you.  You're normal--now you just need to find a normal church. 

I hope this helps,
Supertzar   

(Message edited by Supertzar On 01/29/2009 00:20:45)

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Hello Kitty.    Heehe! 

The vast majority of mainline churches DON'T give fire and brimstone sermons.  Some TV evangelists get carried away with sermons about Armageddon and end-time prophecy.  I admit--they can be abrasive and obnoxious at times.  Often, TV isn't like the real world though, right?  This has caused a lot of misunderstanding by people.

I've been back in church since around May of last year, and my Pastor hasn't delivered a fire and brimstone sermon yet!  Almost all of his sermons are based on Christ from the Gospels.  He also likes to quote from Psalms and Proverbs.  Revelation is a small book, so he doesn't talk about it very much.  In fact, he doesn't talk about prophecy much at all.  They don't let politicians campaign in my church, and everybody gets along great!

My Pastor's message in a nutshell is The Gospel--the Good News that God sent His Son, Jesus, to save you and I from death, if we will follow Him.  That's what a Believer is!  It's simple, really. 

There are plenty of normal churches out there, Kitty.  It's kind of like shopping for shoes--just look around til you find a pair that's comfortable!  There's one church near me that is in an old renovated movie theater.  The music is contemporary Christian, and they even have a coffee shop inside!  Have you checked out some of the Christian bands that are out there these days?

I hope this helps,
Supertzar   

(Message edited by Supertzar On 02/01/2009 16:36:29)

HI there!
  I have to tell you - I have this strong urge to call you M&M - so if you hate it - let me know. 

Anyway - I suffered a HUGE identity crisis when I walked away.  Afterall, *everything* in my world prior to that had to go through the "Fundy Filter".  Decisions were based on what the fundy's thought and felt and taught - not what *I* felt or thought.  (Because clearly any decision I would make on my own, if it did not agree with their teaching, came d.i.r.e.c.t.l.y. from Satan (do your best Dana Carvey impression there.....)

  You didn't dare even think of stepping off the path they had described lest evil drag you down and set you on the road to hell and eternal damnation.  I still find it *SO* completely amusing that they say we have a choice - their way, or eternity in hell....well....le tme thiiiink....YEAH - that isn't a choice.  It's a threat.


  I think a very common theme is that we were all basically taught not to trust our inner thoughts and feelings - especially if they went against what the Bible says or what the church of the day was teaching.  We were not permitted to be curious or to even present very logical, thought out questions or scientific evidence that refuted their teachings.  We were not permitted to pint out and express distate at, blatant untruths and inconsistencies in the Bible.  That brough on a lot of "negative reinforcement".  So - we had to bury that skill and sotp thinking and just do what we were told.

People are human, M&M, we make mistakes, it's part of how we learn.  I think the whole "sex is bad" thing is a TOTAL fuck up job by the church.  What better way to control people than to convince them that something that is run purely on autopiltot by NATURE is something we shouldn't be feeling, is a sin, and any thoughts of acting on them will land you right in Hell - do not pass GO, do not collect $200.  OR - the alternative - you can have sex (in secret of course) - then feel eternally guilty about it, until the day you break down and go to the altar call and confess your sinning ways.  That makes me SO mad.  It's human nature!  I dont' know how I go toff on that tangent...

  For myself - I had to sit down and actually think about (write down a list, if you have to) what I would feel about this, that, and the other if there were nothing to fear from making my own decision.

ie:

 The Virgin Birth - Um yeah.  I think they were trying to keep Mary from being stoned to death and that there should be some Oscar's being handed out.

Jesus - The Son of God:  Wellllll - I'll maybe agree that he was a very influential spiritual teacher, and at times displayed a great deal of compassion and love towards people.  But at times he was also a real power hungry guy with a flare for drama.  Of course - if you had been told you were the Son of God from the time you were born - I'm thinking you'd feel a bit entitled....

God is a loving and compassionate god:  that will permit you  - FORCE YOU, even - to spend *eternity* not just a time out - in Hell if you so much as utter an envious thought  (All sin is equal in the eyes of God - remember?  SO you envious folks are right up there with the child molesters) - dumbest thing I *ever* heard.  that somehow doesn't fit the bill of loving and compassionate for me...

Gays/lesbians/divorced people - BAD - OUTTA HERE - yeah - we used to excommunicate those people.  The Catholic church used to kick out the divorced folks - until they realized that it wasn't going to stop people from getting divorced, it was going to keep them from coming to church and tithing - so NOW they have support groups  for them - suddenly it's OK -  they just change the rules as they see fit.  Irritates the shit out of me.

So - I never would have dared to think those things before - lest I burn in hell

But it's how I feel.  It's always how I have felt , I think - it just didn't make sense to me - but when you are so outnumbered and you SO need to have someone love and accept you - you do what you have to do to survive.

I think I should be good and kind to people because, well, it's nice, and it's kind.  I don't need a scripture somewhere in the Bible giving me a reason to be decent to people.

I actually had to make a LIST of activities that I like to do:  reading, sewing, cross stitch, gardening, oh and sleeping in on Sunday mornings and never getting out of my jammies - ALL DAY.  I had lost so much of myself I didn't even know what I liked to do anymore.  If it didn't involve church, it didn't happen.  SO - not only have I started doing things that I loved prior to the fundy life, I am learning and experimenting with NEW Things!

And NEW beliefs as well.  I dont' do organized religion - of *any* kind.  But I have learned about different ones - take what feels good to me from here or there and helps me feel centered and peaceful inside.  And I dont' really care if anyone else likes it.  It makes my DH really uncomfortable (he's xian) - but that's his problem, not mine.

I have never felt as FREE as I do now.  Never.  I am a good person.  And I manage that without going to church on Sundays.  My relationship with my Higher Power - whatever you want to call it - is nobody's business but mine.  If you choose not to have a higher power and you feel safe and happy like that.  Go for it.

No one has to like it but YOU.

Make a lits - find out who you used to be, who you are, and where you *want* to be.  Make it happen. Give yourself permission.

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