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snakechic
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1#
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Rank:none
Score:3587
Posts:3587
Registered:11/02/2004
Time spent: 6158 hours
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Re:is this normal???
(Date Posted:01/14/2009 16:12:56)
"is it normal'...?
SHit yeah!
Its the same as 'growing yourself up'...catching up with the world - learning how to be. Similar thing happens to kids who have been in abusive situations - their development is stunted or halted at the point of emotional crisis or as you say 'crushing oppression'
Another way to look at it is...that it up to every individual to take their own development in hand and become self directed and self motivated and learn about 'who you are' and what that means.
Within christianity (generally) all this stuff is laid out on a plate for people to follow. All the answers are given, usually as rules or guidelines and all the individual is told to do...is to follow. I mean - its completely understandable that things are going to unfamiliar and awkward.
I mean its bullshit. You end up with a whole bunch of individuals who are basically immature, dependent and cannot control their emotional life or behaviour. Socialising IS hard work (for everyone) compared with the 'easy' or should I say 'closed' communities that make up much any congregation. Its all laid out ...any bickering between people is usually 'umpired' by an authority figure - pastor.....relationship problems are not dealt with. Parenting skills are laid out to be followed - all this stuff is done by the book.
It takes awhile to get 'jiggy' with it all. The idea that its okay to make a mistake. A simple mistake - without it all being a life or death situation. Most often its not....
Self worth is not something that comes all by itself. You demonstrate it to yourself ( I think)...The bullshit of the christian message is that everyone (including non xians) are born in sin means that there is a weird contradiction - the individual is never saved enough yet show arrogance and 'chrisitian pride' when they adopt the identity.
Yeah...its okay to feel your feelings - whatever they are.
Its entirely reasonable to dread running into people from the churches. Who in their right mind wants to associate and be prey to so called 'christian love' and judgement.
I think...dealing with this kind of social interaction is difficult and something that can be learnt/acquired. Meanwhile ..its good to look after yourself.
I don't take your post as a question that needs answering, although that's what i've done. Its a beautiful post.
(Message edited by snakechic On 01/14/2009 16:19:47)
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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rjp3
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2#
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From: USA 
Registered:10/07/2008
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:is this normal???
(Date Posted:01/25/2009 19:29:51)
Short answer? YES!
I agree with Snakechic. It's most always awkward encountering anyone from any ex-church.
I find it awkward to encounter anyone from the church where I had my recording studio. In my case, though, I haven't attended regular services there in so long almost nobody would ever recognise me. Nor would I recognise anyone who'd started going there in the last two or three years. So thankfully I enjoy a certain degree of anonymity.
I understand where MM's coming from. Churches are as bad at having cliques and 'insiders' and 'old boy networks' as anyplace else. The bit about 'Normally I can laugh it off' has to do with first seeing them in other churches, then waking to the realisation they're also in your church, right in front of you, in the very church you were a part of as you'd originally thought it was above all that, and better than that. And it hurts, especially when you discover you're among the outsiders, and the insiders only speak to you because they feel they have to, because it's the 'Christian thing to do'. I know, having been one of those outsiders at more than one church through the years when I went.
I have a reverse version of MM's feelings of social awkwardness. Unlike MM I was not raised in church, so I never learnt the social cues and modes of interaction peculiar to 'churchy' people, especially the Southern Baptist types and such like. These differences with me marked me out as strange to the 'churchy' lot and didn't endear me to them in the main. On the plus side, this helped ease the process of deciding to turn my back on churches and religion. (Not that my social skills outside church are all that great IMHO....)
Anyway, MM, you've made a start, and I commend you for it. And I encourage you. It's baby steps just now, but as you keep on, your confidence will grow with time. Be strong, and don't give up! And we're always here if you need a chat, or to vent, or whatever!
(Message edited by rjp3 On 01/25/2009 19:32:30)
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Reply To snakechic
(Date Posted:02/04/2009 18:37:53)
This message has been deleted due to Termination of Account.
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lsl_mss
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4#
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Rank:none
Score:162
Posts:162
Registered:03/06/2007
Time spent: 0 hours
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Re:is this normal???
(Date Posted:02/10/2009 10:06:27)
YES.
I think Snakey about covered it. ( Hi, Snakey!! Long time no see!) It is definietly par for the course. It's been many years for me, and I'm still "undoing" the crap that the church did to me. Really POs me sometimes. I wish there was a way to make it faster. I always feel like I'm just about to get it - but whatever "it" is that is going to completely set me free continues to elude me.
On some levels, I think "it" just might be the idea that I have a *choice* to be xian or not. And that if I choose NOT, it's still OK. that is something that the fundies drummed OUT of you at every opportunity. their way or the highway. Us vs. them. We are right, they are wrong kind of crap.
I think the idea that my own instincts and beliefs can be trusted is difficult. They basically tell you that any thought you have that the church might be wrong or things you don' agree with come straight from Satan and you must fight against them. You are in essence, taught to mistrust your own instincts. I think that is very hard to unlearn.
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Courage is the price life exacts for granting peace.
~Amelia Earhart
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