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snakechic
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(Date Posted:04/22/2007 03:47:59)

Chatroom users 'egged on father to kill himself live on webcam'sad & horrible...realityhttp://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23390052-details/British+man+commits+suicide+on+live+webcam/article.do

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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

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snakechic
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(Date Posted:04/22/2007 03:48:00)

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

Grayfeather
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Registered: 03/07/2007
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(Date Posted:04/22/2007 05:24:33)

Reply to Snakechic:

Sounds very much like a episode of Law and Order: Criminal Intent that i saw. Gezzzzzzzzzzzz

Grayfeather

snakechic
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(Date Posted:04/23/2007 00:55:37)

Nah...I think its real. See also...http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=455722007 / http://www.chicker.com/Man-Kills-Himself-On-Live-Video-Chatroom-other16.html

Interesting but terrible coincidence ( not that I believe in them) is that yesterday another tragic event was aired on TV...and played out on the internet.

In case anyone is interested...the reason I'm interested in this stuff.....is that I've received private messages from people who are talking about suicide - their own...and I'm wondering what I can do in this situation. ??

Police investigate MySpace 'RIP'

Stephanie and Jodie / Supplied

By Mark Schliebs and AAP

April 23, 2007 04:10pm

Article from: NEWS.com.au
END Story Header Block

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END Story Toolbar Lead Content Panel

  • Police investigating mysterious RIP message to hanged girls
  • Message apparently posted before girls went missing
  • Girls suspected to have died in suicide pact

POLICE are looking into a mysterious "RIP" message that apparently appeared on the shared website of two teenagers before they went missing and were subsequently found hanged in bushland.

A MySpace page for the band "bitchy", which 16-year-olds Stephanie Gestier and Jodie Gater were both members of, says "RIP Jodie & Steph".

Stephanie and Jodie disappeared on April 15 and their bodies weren't found until yesterday.

According to the website records no one has logged into the MySpace bitchy page to make changes since April 14.

A spokeswoman for Victoria Police told NEWS.com.au that the officer filing the report for the coroner will be looking at the site.

General manager for Myspace Australia Rebekah Horne told NEWS.com.au that the text, which was outside of the comments area, could not have been placed on the page without one of the page owners logging in.

The girl's bodies were yesterday found hanging from a tree in the Dandenong Ranges National Park after an apparent suicide pact.

On the band's MySpace page, the four female members describe their music as "Experimental / Happy Hardcore / Rap" and list Jodie's and Stephanie's roles as singing, lyrics and "hitting".

"We love to scream and it's what we do best," the page said.

"We talk in funny voices when we're happy... pretending to sing is one of our fave things to do."
On April 3, a visitor to the girl's page wrote that although he enjoyed their music, but added "u girls have a seriouse problems, but oh well i still like ya's" (sic).

From last December to February, on one of her websites, Jodie posted three odes to suicide, the second one titled Suicide in the Night.

It reads: "It's over for me, I can't take it! I hear it over and over again, It feels like it always rains."

Another of Jodie's MySpace websites reads: "Let Steph n me b free."

Meanwhile, Stephanie also posted a series of photos on a website on March 28 and 29, just over three weeks before she was found dead.

Her website profile said: "i dont wanna know how many friends you have cuz i dont have any anymore (sic)."

Stephanie's grieving mother is also believed to have used the internet early today to post a letter of farewell to her daughter.

The author of the note, identified by Southern Cross Broadcasting as Stephanie's mother Juli, a transit police officer, says her daughter, her only child, "was found with her friend hanging from a tree".

"Stephanie, why didn't you tell me you were so upset? Why didn't you just come home?" the note asked.

"You had only just turned 16. You were always such a quiet girl who spent time listening to music and surfing the internet.

"There is nothing that couldn't have been sorted out. You were my only child and can never be replaced. Bye bye, my little girl."

The teenagers also appear in footage on a YouTube website, dancing with two other girls in what appears to be a school hall.

The girls were in a four-member, all-girl band called Bitchy.

Upwey High School principal Greg Holman said today the school community was "devastated" by the girls' deaths and that counsellors were working with students and staff.

Adolescent psychologist Dr Michael Carr-Greg said a joint suicide pact between girls was rare.

"It's very, very unusual to have girls kill themselves and particularly kill themselves in this way," he said.

Meanwhile he warned friends of the girls should be monitored.

"Yes, this puts all their friends at huge risk," he told Southern Cross Broadcasting.

"We know that having someone close to you commit suicide is a risk factor in and of itself... I'm sure there's people working out there with the young people to make sure they understand that suicide is not a solution." 

Tribute messages started arriving on Jodie's personal MySpace page yesterday.

One of the contributors, LaLa left this message for Jodie: "Heya hun, LOVE YOU ALWAYS, FOREVER MISSED."

On another website that Stephanie had created, she said: "I wish i was 10 again eating toothpaste & blue playdough".

"Believe in me because i dont believe in anything," she said on her page on vampirefreaks.com.
She also listed candy, showers, glitter and rainbows as her "likes".


Police will prepare a report for the coroner.

Available counselling

Counselling for troubled young people is available on the following numbers:

*Lifeline - 131 114 (cost of a local call)

*Kids Help Line - 1800 55 1800 (free call)

*Suicide Prevention Crisis Line - (02) 9331 2000.)

With AAP

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

Grayfeather
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Registered: 03/07/2007
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(Date Posted:04/23/2007 01:47:55)

Reply to Snakechic:

Snakey, concerning this Law and Order episode, it was a Web site on how to commit suicide. It was a very chilling episode, that is what this site reminded me of. I shuttered to think that that could actually be out there.

Gray

 

snakechic
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(Date Posted:04/23/2007 02:22:47)

Oh..I see - I hadn't seen the episode Grey......There are heaps of websites like that......'how to'..? Oh welll...*sigh*....its a fact of life thou'...

separate issue I think ?.....sick!.. that people online at the "paltalk". chatroom.. watched this guy hang himself..!!  It became their entertainment. The site had nothing to do with ...the 'how to' websites. Its basically a comment  on my part....on the relationships made online between total strangers..anonymousity...and the whole deal.

There's debate about whether  the cyber world isn't creating more distance (lack of integrity...compassion...intimacy)....between people. I ponder how the following generations of the digital era ..will develop socially.?

I have a few preconceived ideas.....regarding the place of attention getting - performance etc...? I don't have answers...lots of questions.

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

Grayfeather
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(Date Posted:04/23/2007 03:21:24)

You know Snakey I had belonged to Paltalk for a while. I became very disinterested very soon.

But you know I did not fully read all of what you had said you had received messages from people who had suicidal thoughts. This would bother me as it most certainly bothers you. Gezzzzzzzzz my brother-in-law committed suicide going on six weeks ago. It is so so much trama for eveyone and the lives that he altered because of it. See that was the thing about this Law and Order episode, it had become an issue of the First Amendment. the guy used that as his defense that he could put how to's and is protected by the law. But he had to be held accountable because he did not give recourses for any onther way out  other than suicide.

Gray 

snakechic
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(Date Posted:04/23/2007 08:07:44)

I haven't been online at Palchat  or anything like that......no it wouldn't interest me either. If you find this topic too upsetting at this time..perhaps it would be better if you didn't read it too much? I'm happy to have your input thou'..yes it leaves the family to cope with the death. Sad...

I can't imagine how the families of people who use the internet in this way feel...? I did see on the TV news...that one of the mother's of the girls who ended their own lives..is writing on her own blog about how she feels.

I don't think you get my drift really......my interest is not whether this stuff is shown or not. 0r whether the internet is 'censored'.....As an Australian ...we don't abide by the 'First Amendment' anyway... I personally don't make judgements - whether its against the law or anything like that...

General background comment included...............

I personally don't see anything "abnormal"  with people/children  having suicidal thoughts or fantasies......at some point. as this study shows.. kids can become affected by what is going on in their environments.  That is pretty much a 'given'..

Going back to the thread title.......I'm wondering if the internet provides people...(ie. its a shift or change in society)  that are seeking attention ....and  if suicide idealization..is somehow exacerbated by the internet style of communications.?

I couldn't find a good definition....but here's a bit of background theory.....

 

Emile Durkheim, a French sociologist, has proposed a classification system for suicide that concentrates on the social circumstances in which the individual lives. According to this system, there are four types of suicides: egoistic, anomic, altruistic, and fatalistic. Egoistic suicides, following a pattern of diminished integration, are individuals who have become detached from society and come to believe that their existence is meaningless. Most of the individuals in this group suffer from mental disorders or are recently divorced, and usually exhibit signs of depression and apathy. Individuals who compose the category of altruistic suicides, with a pattern of excessive integration, exist in a community wherein the social rules dictate that that person's life is sacrificial. Anomic suicides, with a pattern of diminished regulation, usually result from sudden disruptions in the social hierarchy or norms, such as economic or political crises, or disruptions in the individual's normal life. The typical feelings associated with this group of individuals are anger, disappointment, and exasperation. The final group of classification is that of fatalistic suicides, with a pattern of excessive regulation, which are very uncommon; fatalistic suicides occur among individuals who believe that the circumstances surrounding their lives have simply become unbearable.
Two problems with Durkheim's system are that many of the types seem to be highly comorbid, and that it is not clear why other members who exist within the same social group, subject to the same social pressures, do not commit suicide.
 
I'm suggesting that the "internet' fits into this classification system...it has become a social system in itself.
 
or putting it another way....I'm wondering if there is a connection ....ie..where the person online sets out to  involve other's in their fantasy or idolisation while acting out the call for attention.?
 
For me... the bottom line is...there is nothing much a person on the other end of the computer across the world can do to set in place intervention to prevent a person harming themselves. I find that a 'powerless' situation.....however I respect the person who chooses to do this...................and their right to have someone listen to them.
 
 
 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide

I"m exporing the topic......

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

Support us Just click the links below and your donations will make a difference here.
 
Phatchick
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(Date Posted:04/26/2007 18:17:20)

Oh my god!
words fail me.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Phatchick

"I believe in looking reality straight in the eye and denying it."
Garrison Keillor

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