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snakechic
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1# |
Rank:none
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Posts:3524
Registered:
11/02/2004
Time spent:
6158 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2007 03:59:02)
Grey....I also I think its fair to pay for services rendered....BUT...is nt' the pastor or whatever they call themselves..supposed to be a servant ....of god? Why does god need so much money? He collects billions all over the world...and still its not enough...never enough. There's an excellent G.Callin quote about that. I also can't stand when the whole sermon ..made regularly is all about tit thing.....of course to include the guilt trip..for not giving enough. !
tis really what religions is all about to me....A money making..business organisation. Nothing more!
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Shadowself
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2# |
Registered:
01/16/2004
Time spent:
1773 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2007 04:08:03)
I used to believe in tithing 10% of your gross income, plus offerings on top of that. It's supposed to be "unto God" but in reality it's "unto the religious corporation and the minister." If it was for God, you would think the bulk of the money should go for teaching, preaching, and missionary work, along with aid to the poor and widows per the Bible. My old church budget would show that most of the money went for building maintanance (ours was an old school building, much too large for the size of the congregation) and salaries (mostly for the minister, but also for a part-time custodian and eventually a part-time secretary). The old building really sucked a lot of the money from the budget. The smallest section of the financial pie went for missions. I used to be bothered by that; it had seemed to me it should be opposite, but the mighty powers that be deemed it otherwise. Of course, I now feel that the whole system was a scam, and that I had been ripped off, but there is nothing to do about it now but learn from my lesson. I do think that a person should support causes that they believe in, but it should be totally their decision and the amount should be reasonable. I still give some to charities, and I do make donations to my Unitarian-Universalist Church, but I call the shots as to what I can afford. While the UU Church has an annual pledge drive (they don't call it tithing), there is no pressure to give 10% of your income. I certainly don't think that any donation is for "God", it's just for the operations of the church.
The big point to remember: Tithing is a SCAM.
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A big revelation in my professional training was that humans can learn skills for living and relating. We don"t have to be desperate for a miracle of God to make us decent.--Marlene Winell
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Shadowself
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3# |
Registered:
01/16/2004
Time spent:
1773 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2007 04:12:10)
Reply to : snakechic
..made regularly is all about tit thing.....
Intentional jab, or Freudian slip?  It does remind me of one old lady, who used to keep her coin purse tucked safely away in her ample bosom.
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A big revelation in my professional training was that humans can learn skills for living and relating. We don"t have to be desperate for a miracle of God to make us decent.--Marlene Winell
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Grayfeather
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4# |
Registered:
03/07/2007
Time spent:
0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2007 04:18:05)
Snakey, I guess I was not too clear What I was trying to say was that the services rendered is not in the modern day term as paying money to the preacher or the church but in following the old tradition known through the centuries especially for shamans. I did say healer, but that was my fault because I really meant those hearbal healers such as my great grandmother was who had helped and still do help in healing who do not get paid with money. Matter of fact there are several shaman and Native American sites that state that if someone is asking for money "Stay Awawy From Them!" Now my great grandmother did not really need the chickens, fruits and vegetables for she had those things on her own farm but she did not want to offend those who were saying "thank you" with the items that they had given to her because she would never take money from them when offered.
Grayfeather
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snakechic
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5# |
Rank:none
Score:0
Posts:3524
Registered:
11/02/2004
Time spent:
6158 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2007 04:48:39)
Reply to : Shadowself
Reply to : snakechic..made regularly is all abouttit thing.....Intentional jab, or Freudian slip? It does remind me of one old lady, who used to keep her coin purse tucked safely away in her ample bosom.
Neither....I deleted an extra 't' that I had typed..........but forgot to delete the space. I'm typing so fast..you see. 
Tits..............is not where I keep my treasures!
I agree...tithing is a scam.!
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Grayfeather
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6# |
Registered:
03/07/2007
Time spent:
0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2007 04:59:54)
Reply to Shadowself and Snakechic:
I tread sottly on this but thought I would share that in my thirty some years in retailing quite a lot of women still place money clips and small change purses between their bosoms. Here I am waiting for the money andt they stand there a diggin. Mostly the senior citizens but now a days quite a few of the younger generation is doing it too. But most are very modest and turn themselves away from me as they are getting their money. It reminds me very much of my mother for she used to keep her small change purse there too.
Grayfeather
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snakechic
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7# |
Rank:none
Score:0
Posts:3524
Registered:
11/02/2004
Time spent:
6158 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2007 05:06:47)
Reply to : Grayfeather
Snakey, I guess I was not too clearWhat I was trying to say was thatthe services rendered is not in the modern day term as paying money to the preacher or the church but in following the old tradition known through the centuries especially for shamans. I did say healer, but that was my fault because I really meant those hearbal healers such as my great grandmother waswho hadhelped and still do helpin healing who do not get paid with money. Matter of fact there are several shaman and Native American sites that state thatif someone is asking for money "Stay Awawy From Them!" Now my great grandmother did not really need the chickens, fruits and vegetables for she had those things on her own farm but she did not want to offend those who were saying "thank you" with the items
Oh...okay...
I used the term in that way. I pay for 'services' I buy from other's. but I think that christian - religious preachers are scamming for money and using their pulpits to do it. Not to mention the name of 'god'...
I don't' see too many 'services' in what they are doing....I feel its self service. To pay their wages and run the buildings which basically comes down to ..where they earn their living. Yep..its a scam.
But..I do see your point...I think....that in many cultural settings like the shaman/healer.....payment of money is seen as a sign of a person doing the 'service'..the healing only for the money......and that most likely they are not real or crappy. Charlatans is the term I think.
I feel the same thing when I walk through our local shopping mall and the 'physic' have set up their little stalls in the middle ..between the shops. It really makes it hard to walk through on a busy day. Anyway.....there they are sitting on card tables and fold up chairs...usually about a 10 or so....'physic' with a customer sitting in front on the other side of this little table. Not only are they 'working' in a very noisy public area....they are getting paid money...or selling their services..which I think couldn't be anywhere near real or even believable.
Yes...I agree ...if the christians were really doing the 'job' they say they are there to do..'helping the poor'...then the preacher wouldn't ask money from them...but would give them the chruches money.!
I also think its nice....to pay for a service so the 'poor' person doesn't feel like a charity case.....which is how I think christianity sees people.
Have you come across the 'abundant' message that a lot of modern preachers are pushing...that its good to be rich..that its a sign from god that you are a good person...? Totally crap!
let me know if I still didn't get you okay
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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snakechic
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8# |
Rank:none
Score:0
Posts:3524
Registered:
11/02/2004
Time spent:
6158 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2007 05:10:36)
Reply to : Grayfeather
quite a lot of women still place money clips and small change purses between their bosoms. Here I am waiting for the money andt they stand there a diggin
That's such a funny picture Grey...I can almost see them 'diggin'....
no need to tread softly....that's so funny...!!!
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Grayfeather
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9# |
Registered:
03/07/2007
Time spent:
0 hours
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(Date Posted:04/20/2007 05:16:13)
Reply to Snakechic"
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"let me know if I still didn't get you, okay"
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You got it Snakey! Matter of fact I am saying to myself gezzzzzzzzz because after I sent my reply to you I reread your reply and I goofed, I thought you did not get it but you did the first time around and I have tofor being soooooooooooo "dumb" but I do have an excuse I was cooking dinner for my two girls (wife and daughter) and running back here to the computer reading and a writing. btw, they loved my dinner. Italian sausage smothered in tomato sauce and chopped tomatoes with garlic and oregino MMmmmmmmmmm Love it myself Hehehehehehehe
Grayfeather
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