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Amisk
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(Date Posted:02/28/2007 14:18:04)

The Newf. (my wife) and I read the Bible regularly. We find it to offer good advice and we recommend it to all. It is encouraging, wise and authoritative in its understanding of the very nature of mankind.It seems to me that one can not truthfully judge its worth without having studied its message.

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"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have ever lasting life." John 3:16

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John_Galt
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(Date Posted:03/01/2007 00:58:55)

Some of us prefer non-fiction, but as works of fiction go, I agree, the bible is a pretty good choice. Even though parts of it are badly written, and most of the characters in the stories aren't particularly well developed (writers like Homer and Sophocles had much more finely honed literary skills), and the work suffers from internal inconsistencies, the bible should be considered part of the Canon and useful for study. One should just make not to rely on it too much.

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Il n'y a que deux puissances au monde, le sabre et l'esprit: à la longue, le sabre est toujours vaincu par l'esprit - Napoléon Ier

Amisk
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(Date Posted:03/01/2007 03:41:26)

I would have to disagree with your opinion of the Bible.

I would ask you to give me proof that the Bible is a work of fiction. The Bible has been for many years the best seller on the non-friction book seller's list and it  has out printed and out lived (in its different translations and languages) any other book on the market. It is one of few books that men have lived by and died for the right to own a copy. In fact in many countries of the world today folks still giving their lives to own a copy, others are spending years in jail because of those who seek to destroy the book and their faith.

English history tells us that the Bible was burn in England and people died at the stake for having a copy and the more that kings tried to suppress it the fast it spread.

Like I said earlier my Newf. and I have read it for a good many years now and we have yet to discover the errors that some folks keep claiming are to be found there in.

I am not a scholar of Literature or history  but I am told that there is more prove in history for the life and resurrection of Jesus Christ than there is the for authenticity of either William Shakespeare, or Socrates.

I also note that the free peoples of the of the world live in those countries which have based their laws on the 10 Commandments, Canada being one of those nations which once based their laws on the Bible. As our government has turned to secularism and humanism most Canadian have witnessed the fall of our nation morally. If the 10 Commandments gave us nothing else, they gave us a basis for law and order which was worth pinning them in the halls of justice and using as a foundation for the laws of our country.  

 A friend sent me these few thoughts which I pass on to you: "The reasons people give for not believing God often boil down to something they want God to do to prove Himself. Sadly, in making a "to do" lists for God, we miss seeing the countless things He has already done.

Even people who lived near Jesus and who witnessed His miracles asked for more proof. Comparing Jesus to Moses, they asked, "What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? . . . Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, ?He gave them bread from heaven to eat'" (John 6:30-31).

Even in the bible times they wanted PROOF. Even with Jesus standing right in front of them. There is NOTHING anyone can show you to prove anything. Unless you WANT to believe through faith, you won't. Nothing anyone can show you would be good enough. Think about that, Amisk."

You can seek a sign that Christianity is correct. You can call the Bible fiction if you like but that doesn't belittle its claim or message. There will come a day when you will realize that you were wrong. Then you will know you have missed the best of what is to come and remember that you could have had better in this world but you where too busy condemning the truth of the scriptures.

 I can take Christianity seriously and if I come to the end of life and find that I was wrong, I will have lost nothing for having believed  the Bible, other than escaping the messed up lives I so often see family and friends living in. On the other hand, if the Bible is correct I will have gained Heaven.

My prayers are with you.  

--------------------------------------------------------------
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have ever lasting life." John 3:16

The Cuteness
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(Date Posted:03/01/2007 10:23:03)

Reply to : Amisk



Like I said earlier my Newf. and I have read it for a good many years now and we have yet to discover the errors that some folks keep claiming are to be found there in.





So you're a slow reader - don't worry - keep at it

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Marquis de Sade (Quills): Are your convictions so fragile they cannot stand in opposition to mine? Is your god so flimsy, so weak? For shame.

snakechic
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(Date Posted:03/01/2007 11:26:04)

Reply to : Amisk

 we have yet to discover the errors that some folks keep claiming are to be found there in.

 Here's a great big list! Oh...don't thank me.....I am more than happy to oblige anyone who asks this same question.

So.....what 'moved' you exactly to post here?......I hope you feel better now!

If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?

 

Theological doctrines:

     1. God is satisfied with his works
         Gen 1:31
        God is dissatisfied with his works. 
         Gen 6:6
     2. God dwells in chosen temples
         2 Chron 7:12,16
        God dwells not in temples
         Acts 7:48
     3. God dwells in light
         Tim 6:16
        God dwells in darkness
         1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
     4. God is seen and heard
         Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
          Ex 24:9-11
        God is invisible and cannot be heard
         John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
     5. God is tired and rests
         Ex 31:17
        God is never tired and never rests
         Is 40:28
     6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
         Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
        God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all     
        things
         Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
     7. God knows the hearts of men
         Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
        God tries men to find out what is in their heart
         Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
     8. God is all powerful
         Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
       God is not all powerful
         Judg 1:19
     9. God is unchangeable
         James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
        God is changeable
         Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
          Ex 33:1,3,17,14
     10. God is just and impartial
          Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
         God is unjust and partial
          Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
     11. God is the author of evil
          Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
         God is not the author of evil
          1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
     12. God gives freely to those who ask
          James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
         God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving   
         them
          John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
     13. God is to be found by those who seek him
          Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
         God is not to be found by those who seek him
          Prov 1:28
     14. God is warlike
          Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
         God is peaceful
          Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
     15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
          Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
         God is kind, merciful, and good
          James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/ 
           1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
     16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
          Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
         God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
          Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
     17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,  
         sacrifices ,and holy days
          Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
         God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,   
         sacrifices, and holy days.
          Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
     18. God accepts human sacrifices
          2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
         God forbids human sacrifice
          Deut 12:30,31
     19. God tempts men
          Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
         God tempts no man
          James 1:13
     20. God cannot lie
          Heb 6:18
         God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
          2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
     21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
          Gen 6:5,7
         Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
          Gen 8:21
     22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
          Rom 1:20
         God's attributes cannot be discovered
          Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
     23. There is but one God
          Deut 6:4
         There is a plurality of gods
          Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7
 

to be continued....

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

snakechic
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(Date Posted:03/01/2007 11:34:17)

page 2

Moral Precepts

     24. Robbery commanded
          Ex 3:21,22/ Ex 12:35,36
         Robbery forbidden
          Lev 19:13/ Ex 20:15
     25. Lying approved and sanctioned
          Josh 2:4-6/ James 2:25/ Ex 1:18-20/ 1 Kings 22:21,22
         Lying forbidden
          Ex 20:16/ Prov 12:22/ Rev 21:8
     26. Hatred to the Edomite sanctioned
          2 Kings 14:7,3
         Hatred to the Edomite forbidden
          Deut 23:7
     27. Killing commanded
          Ex 32:27
         Killing forbidden
          Ex 20:13
     28. The blood-shedder must die
          Gen 9:5,6
         The blood-shedder must not die
          Gen 4:15
     29. The making of images forbidden
           Ex 20:4
         The making of images commanded
          Ex 25:18,20
     30. Slavery and oppression ordained
          Gen 9:25/ Lev 25:45,46/ Joel 3:8
         Slavery and oppression forbidden
          Is 58:6/ Ex 22:21/ Ex 21:16/ Matt 23:10
     31. Improvidence enjoyed
          Matt 6:28,31,34/ Luke 6:30,35/ Luke 12:3
         Improvidence condemned
          1 Tim 5:8/ Prov 13:22
     32. Anger approved
          Eph 4:26
         Anger disapproved
          Eccl 7:9/ Prov 22:24/ James 1:20
     33. Good works to be seen of men
          Matt 5:16
         Good works not to be seen of men
          Matt 6:1
     34. Judging of others forbidden
          Matt 7:1,2
         Judging of others approved
          1 Cor 6:2-4/ 1 Cor 5:12
      35. Christ taught non-resistance
          Matt 5:39/ Matt 26:52
         Christ taught and practiced physical resistance
          Luke 22:36/ John 2:15
     36. Christ warned his followers not to fear being killed
          Luke 12:4
         Christ himself avoided the Jews for fear of being killed
          John 7:1
     37. Public prayer sanctioned
          1 Kings 8:22,54, 9:3
         Public prayer disapproved
          Matt
6:5,6
     38. Importunity in prayer commended
          Luke 18:5,7
         Importunity in prayer condemned
          Matt 6:7,8
     39. The wearing of long hair by men sanctioned
          Judg 13:5/ Num 6:5
         The wearing of long hair by men condemned
          1 Cor 11:14
     40. Circumcision instituted
          Gen 17:10
         Circumcision condemned
          Gal 5:2
     41. The Sabbath instituted
          Ex 20:8
         The Sabbath repudiated
          Is 1:13/ Rom 14:5/ Col 2:16
     42. The Sabbath instituted because God rested on the seventh day
          Ex 20:11
         The Sabbath instituted because God brought the Israelites    
         out of Egypt
          Deut 5:15
     43. No work to be done on the Sabbath under penalty of death
          Ex 31:15/ Num 15:32,36
         Jesus Christ broke the Sabbath and justified his disciples in 
         the same
          John 5:16/ Matt 12:1-3,5
     44. Baptism commanded
          Matt 28:19
         Baptism not commanded
          1 Cor 1:17,14
     45. Every kind of animal allowed for food.
          Gen 9:3/ 1 Cor 10:25/ Rom 14:14
         Certain kinds of animals prohibited for food.
          Deut 14:7,8
      46. Taking of oaths sanctioned
          Num 30:2/ Gen 21:23-24,31/ Gen 31:53/ Heb 6:13
         Taking of oaths forbidden
          Matt 5:34
     47. Marriage approved
          Gen 2:18/ Gen 1:28/ Matt 19:5/ Heb 13:4
         Marriage disapproved
          1 Cor 7:1/ 1 Cor 7:7,8
     48. Freedom of divorce permitted
          Deut 24:1/ Deut 21:10,11,14
         Divorce restricted
          Matt 5:32
     49. Adultery forbidden
          Ex 20:14/ Heb 13:4
         Adultery allowed
          Num 31:18/ Hos 1:2; 2:1-3
     50. Marriage or cohabitation with a sister denounced
          Deut 27:22/ Lev 20:17
         Abraham married his sister and God blessed the union
          Gen 20:11,12/ Gen 17:16
     51. A man may marry his brother's widow
          Deut 25:5
         A man may not marry his brother's widow
          Lev 20:21
     52. Hatred to kindred enjoined
          Luke 14:26
         Hatred to kindred condemned
          Eph 6:2/ Eph 5:25,29
     53. Intoxicating beverages recommended
          Prov 31:6,7/ 1 Tim 5:23/ Ps 104:15
         Intoxicating beverages discountenanced
          Prov 20:1/ Prov 23:31,32
     54. It is our duty to obey our rulers, who are God's ministers   
         and punish evil doers only
          Rom 13:1-3,6
         It is not our duty to obey rulers, who sometimes punish the  
         good and receive unto themselves damnation therefor
          Ex 1:17,20/ Dan 3:16,18/ Dan 6:9,7,10/ Acts 4:26,27/
           Mark 12:38,39,40/ Luke 23:11,24,33,35
     55. Women's rights denied
          Gen 3:16/ 1 Tim 2:12/ 1 Cor 14:34/ 1 Pet 3:6
         Women's rights affirmed
          Judg 4:4,14,15/ Judg 5:7/ Acts 2:18/ Acts 21:9
     56. Obedience to masters enjoined
          Col 3:22,23/ 1 Pet 2:18
         Obedience due to God only
          Matt 4:10/ 1 Cor 7:23/ Matt 23:10
     57. There is an unpardonable sin
          Mark 3:29
There is not unpardonable sin
          Acts 13:39

 

and so on....

I and my father are one.
     - John 10:30

     ... I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
     - John 14:28
     [Jesus was the speaker in both of these quotes]
   

you like this page you might also like Contradictions of the Gospel and this List of Biblical Contradictions at www.infidels.org

Jesus Lied About Prayer

 

    Jesus is quoted many times in the Bible saying that a believer can ask for anything through prayer and receive it.  He even goes so far as to say that mountains and trees can be thrown into the sea simply by praying for it.  This is clearly a lie, and can be proven to be a lie by any believer.  Simply pray for me to be converted to Christianity right away.  Or better yet ask God to move the mountains behind my house.  He could make a lot of converts that way.  If I'm converted today, I'll post a public apology on my web site and devote my life to kissing God's ass.  If I'm not converted it would only be fair for you to apologize and devote your life to kissing my butt.

 

    Here are the quotes from Jesus that proves that he lied:

 

    1)  And Jesus answered and said to them, "Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen.  "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive."  (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)

 

    2)  Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)

 

    3)  Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven.  For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst.  (Matthew 18:19-20 NAS)

 

    4)  Amen, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart but believes that what he says will happen, it shall be done for him.  Therefore I tell you, all that you ask for in prayer, believe that you will receive it and it shall be yours.  (Mark 11:24-25 NAB)

 

    5)  And I tell you, ask and you will receive; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.  For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.  (Luke 11:9-13 NAB)

 

    6)  And whatever you ask in my name, I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.  If you ask anything of me in my name, I will do it.  (John 14:13-14 NAB)

 

    7)  If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask for whatever you want and it will be done for you.  (John 15:7 NAB)

 

    8)  It was not you who chose me, but I who chose you and appointed you to go and bear fruit that will remain, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name he may give you.  (John 15:16 NAB)

 

    9)  On that day you will not question me about anything.  Amen, amen, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in my name he will give you.  Until now you have not asked anything in my name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be complete.  (John 16:23-24 NAB)

 

    A lot of Christians ignore what Jesus actually says in the Bible.  They also tend to add things to the actual words to make them say something else.  If you honestly and truthfully read these quotes, without adding to them, it is very easy to see that Jesus is not saying that God will think about your prayers.  He says God will grant all your prayers.  Clearly, God doesn't grant all prayers and this proves that Jesus was a habitual liar.

 

Also see my web page End Times about the many lies that Jesus told about the second coming of God.

 

Happy reading...

--------------------------------------------------------------
In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.

-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God

John_Galt
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(Date Posted:03/01/2007 18:44:14)




I also note that the free peoples of the of the world live in those countries which have based their laws on the 10 Commandments, Canada being one of those nations which once based their laws on the Bible. As our government has turned to secularism and humanism most Canadian have witnessed the fall of our nation morally. If the 10 Commandments gave us nothing else, they gave us a basis for law and order which was worth pinning them in the halls of justice and using as a foundation for the laws of our country.



Not quite. Canada has never had laws forbidding the making of graven images, nor has the taking of the "lord's" name ever been proscribed. The Sabbath rest was never in our law books, for a while there were Sunday laws, but the biblical, 10 commandment Sabbath has never been law in Canada; Honouring fathers and mothers has never been part of the legal system; nor was adultery a crime; While the Criminal Code outlaws theft, our entirely legal system is based on the unilateral assertion of sovereignty by the British Crown over these lands, which was essentially theft from the natives; "coveting" has never been outlawed in Canada either.

The only ones of the ten commandments ever to have found its way into our law books were:

(a) the proscription against murder;

(b) the prohibition against theft;

(c) a prohibition against perjury (but no general law against lying)

The 10 commandments has never been the basis of any western legal system, and Christians who falsely make this assertion are violating the commandment against bearing false witness. So you better repent or I'll see you in hell.

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Il n'y a que deux puissances au monde, le sabre et l'esprit: à la longue, le sabre est toujours vaincu par l'esprit - Napoléon Ier

John_Galt
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