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The Cuteness
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(Date Posted:09/12/2007 12:58:14)
Why would they do that? That's awful.
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Marquis de Sade (Quills): Are your convictions so fragile they cannot stand in opposition to mine? Is your god so flimsy, so weak? For shame.
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Shadowself
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(Date Posted:09/15/2007 03:03:46)
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A big revelation in my professional training was that humans can learn skills for living and relating. We don"t have to be desperate for a miracle of God to make us decent.--Marlene Winell
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Jezebel Rising
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(Date Posted:09/15/2007 08:01:47)
Your daughter was tortured and sexually abused, and you still lean on Jesus? Ask yourself this: why didn't Jesus stop this from happening in the first place?
I didn't notice that, although I should have. Excellent point.
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"I"m not a witch, but I wish I was. If I live I"d be a witch now after what they have done. I"ll burn their crops and kill their animals. I"ll stir up such storms. I"ll scatter their ships across the world. If I could meet with the devil right now, I would give him anything for power, for he is the only way to power for women in this world. I shouldn"t have been afraid of Ellen, I should have learnt. Oh, if I only had magic, I"d make them feel it."
Caryl Churchill, "Vinegar Tom"
"It might be the greatest thing ever invented, but if it"s invented, then it"s not worth dying for."
Taj Bachmann, former missionary
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snakechic
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(Date Posted:09/18/2007 05:15:41)
Horrible newspaper article !!
Racism?........not sure you can pin something like that down to just 'racism' or explain it away with more 'racism' - ie calling the perps 'white trash'.
There's been a few gang rape/murders here in Oz as well. Sociopaths / psychopaths - does it run in families? I think so ....people who have similar 'tastes' usually hang out together. That gang must have had a lot of time on their hands.....bored?.,...to spend an entire week torturing the woman. I wonder if they had 'practised' this kind of thing before on more willing subject. You know.......there are people looking to be subjugated - mascocistists and might find the 'torture' described in this story very sexually stimulating ?
You can connect with a lot of weirdo's online!
Your daughter was tortured and sexually abused, and you still lean on Jesus? Ask yourself this: why didn't Jesus stop this from happening in the first place?
yeah.....to me it seems most christians believe in an interventionist 'god/jesus'............but fail to 'blame' 'gawd when 'shit' happens. .................But ya'd think this horror might stimulate the mind of mother who is coping wtih the damaged/ beaten daughter. ?
Also....I can imagine the FUCKED UP counselling (if you can call it that.) .. that the woman might receive at the hands of 'christian' helper's. ! You know...didn't she pray enough or some bullshit about 'forgiveness"?
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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The Cuteness
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(Date Posted:09/20/2007 14:02:33)
Reply to : snakechic
yeah.....to me it seems most christians believe in an interventionist 'god/jesus'............but fail to 'blame' 'gawd when 'shit' happens. .................But ya'd think this horror might stimulate the mind of mother who is coping wtih the damaged/ beaten daughter. ?
Also....I can imagine the FUCKED UP counselling (if you can call it that.) .. that the woman might receive at the hands of 'christian' helper's. ! You know...didn't she pray enough or some bullshit about 'forgiveness"?
I remember talking to a fundy friend of mine when I was a fundy and she said to me "it's great being a christian. if someone were to walk down the street and get mugged and raped and didn't have jesus they would struggle to make it through. But YOU..." she paused and I smiled thinking "yeah I'm safe" she continued: " YOU would have gods love to make it through the trying time" I remember thinking, deluded though I was, "That SUCKS! What's the point in being best mates with this all powerful god if he's just going to let me suffer the same fate as everyone else?!" It occurs to me now, reading your post snakey, that by giving inept counselling, making hard times worse and telling you that it would BE EVEN WORSE if you were an atheist they scare the shit out of you and make you even more dependent on them. Whereas the truth is you could handle your life a lot better if you didn't have these assholes feeding you all kinds of esteem-reducing crap. But you think you need them. Isn't that the same tactic that abusive spouses use to control their other half. They knock them down till they can't cope on their own and then THEY are the ones to pick up the pieces. But the victim doesn't realise that the person they think is saving them is actually the problem in the first place.
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Marquis de Sade (Quills): Are your convictions so fragile they cannot stand in opposition to mine? Is your god so flimsy, so weak? For shame.
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snakechic
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(Date Posted:09/23/2007 07:57:43)
Reply to : The Cuteness
But you think you need them.
Isn't that the same tactic that abusive spouses use to control their other half. They knock them down till they can't cope on their own and then THEY are the ones to pick up the pieces. But the victim doesn't realise that the person they think is saving them is actually the problem in the first place.
Yeah....good point! That's exactly how I see the 'believer' behaving towards the person who apparently needs some 'teachings' or 'help' . The 'believer' wants to identify weaknesses and create 'need'.
Here's my take on it.....the bastards wheedle away at your self esteem - your life in order to make a point - how much better you'll be with the companionship of their faith - to join them at church. There was also a very competitive streak to the conversation..."i'm better off than you are cos I'm saved and you're not" And . I don't know how many times I've had 'christians' say to me that faith in 'god' is the answer to everything - of course the covert suggestion is that if you don't go down that way, you're fucked!
In other words I also had similar conversations with my fundy /'believer' family members as you describe in your post..................................but in my stories or reflections of the convo's I had with fundies/believer's is that they did try very hard to convince themselves that they were going to get that 'special' treatment from life through their faith in a god.. Stuff like - testimonies of how if they 'prayed' or thought....stuff like looking for a parking spot in a very crowed carpark - POP! one would magically appear to them. ...All kinds of 'good' fortune would happen that they could talk about - prosperity - big income etc etc ! ...as well as being able to 'see' spiritual' danger by being able to recognise 'evil' people and places.........(crazy crap)
Basically the thing is to change the victims reality and make em' swallow a different 'reality' that is not theirs in the first place. ......Umm...when people converse or exchange 'realities' there's a eye to eye thing happening. - its level however with the christian or True believer dynamic one person takes on a high moral ground and tries to knock off the equilibrium of the other person and tries to make them accepting of their 'truth'. Its combative.
What's the point in being best mates with this all powerful god if he's just going to let me suffer the same fate as everyone else?!"
but yeah...I could take your question or logic further....
Its not only about the idea that 'god' will save or help you when shit happens......................but that 'god' doesn't show itself at all? Even to the ever so 'faithful' True believer.
Here's how it goes.......paraphrased
"According to the Bible when the Israelites wandered in the desert for forty years, "God' fed them by making food fall regularly from the sky (Ex16:4). During the 1980's, several million Ethiopian Christians died slowly and painfully from starvation due to a prolonged drought. "God" had then the opportunity to make food fall from the sky, as the Bible claims he did in the past, in order to prove his existence, his power and his love. "
Anyone could say that 'god' did not manifest his presence because he does not exist.
but many don't choose to or at least entertain the idea that 'god' is particularly an 'evil' bastard who like to see his creation suffer.?
*shrugs*
p.s. love the new nickname - Cuteness rules! Sorry if this post is a bit jumbled or repeative..I'm eating lunch while I type!
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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