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imalivenow
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1# |
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Posts:34
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03/03/2003
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 4:50 AM)
Reply to : St. Thomas
Gentle Walk Awayers,I have been gone for almost three months from the board.The details are not pertinent to our discussion, but suffice it to say that I was taking a mental vacation that kind of started when the daughter of a good friend of mine died in an auto accident.The death of someone near you has a non to subtle way of causing one to re-evaluate one? own priorities and existence.Anyway, that was the catalyst, the result being internet downtime for about three months.I even let my email back up.But, at the risk of throwing something heavy into the fray and then abruptly changing gears - this is a topic that can be
I agree that the times they are a changin' around here. That's for certain. And even though I don't get time to post very much, I do lurk around when I get the chance. I miss the veterans, but it is good to see new faces. I would suggest that you create a special Veterans area. I know the Bucket was supposed to be what this veterans area would be, but somehow it has gotten lost in the shuffle--I know I rarely, if ever go there. I might go to a veterans forum, though. Whatever you do, don't give up on this walkaway site. I'll probably never make the order of the 666 but this is about the only forum I visit--or care to.
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I believe in what I see;
I believe in what I hear;
I believe that what I'm feeling
Changes how the world appears..
Rush
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Sunshine36616
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2# |
From:
Registered:
01/10/2003
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 4:52 AM)
I like the idea of having a newbie section and a veteran section. It's great that the veterans are moving on to new places in their lives, but lots of the new comers are still struggling with various issues.
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Sunshine36616
Doyle from the movie "Sling Blade" on the bible: Well I can't understand none of it. This one begat that one and that one begat this one, and lo and behold someone sayeth some shit to someone else--just how retarded are you?
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Sunshine36616
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3# |
From:
Registered:
01/10/2003
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 4:53 AM)
I like the idea of having a Veterans and Newbie section. A lot of the newcomers are still goign through stuff that the veterans might be over.
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Sunshine36616
Doyle from the movie "Sling Blade" on the bible: Well I can't understand none of it. This one begat that one and that one begat this one, and lo and behold someone sayeth some shit to someone else--just how retarded are you?
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exmissionary
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4# |
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Posts:215
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09/02/2002
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 5:44 AM)
Reply to : St. Thomas Sorry about your loss. It's amazing how trivial internet relationships feel when RL comes along and kicks you sideways. I'm glad you took a break. May I make a guess? I think the reason the Bucket doesn't get more traffic is that we really don't have as much to talk about apart from our ex-fundy status as we think. We really do congregate around being ex-fundies even in our posts to newbies and other topics. I like that Drummond posts about politics in Lion's Den since there is an interesting overlap in fundy politics and religion and most of us who walk away from fundy faith will then re-evalaute politics next. That seems like a progression that fits. But I can't really picture (maybe I'm blind) that there is a core of veterans who have other things to discuss that will draw them back again and again. Am I off the mark? Cooking? Hiking? Movies? Parenting? What is it that draws us together? Internet communities thrive on shared interests. Ours is ex-fundamentalism. And as for me, I am still in my own mind gradually leaving the faith and still find that I need support at times. Yet I will have been here a year in September. Am I a newbie or a veteran? Is a newbie someone who has just walked away (within weeks/months) or is walking away currently or merely someone new to the forum? I remember that bhoff walked away twenty years ago but joined us last year (around when I joined) for the interesting discussion. He wasn't a veteran of WA but definitely had more in common with veterans. See what I mean? This definition then needs defining and that can create an "us vs. them" feeling which is counter productive in a support forum where it takes tremendous courage to even make that first post (you remember the?ill God see this post and smite me??eeling). I wonder if what is really missing (pardon me for saying so) is more moderating. The stated purpose of the forum is important and the role of veterans (like in AA or other 12 step groups) is to continue to support newbies while staying the course themselves. You've got the bucket (which you could relabel and see what happens) and you've already got the Support Forum. Now a moderator needs to protect the newbies and veterans from flame wars and pettiness. Jmh two cents.  Ex
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I'm not easy on my knees. (Love and Peace or Else, U2)
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Blue_Fox
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5# |
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Posts:153
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04/22/2002
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 6:23 AM)
I agree with Ex-missionary. I've been on the forum for more than a year, but I'm just now telling family and friends about my deconversion. I just posted a new topic in the Support Forum asking for advice about telling my mother. It seemed to fit into that forum -- support was exactly what I needed. Yet I don't consider myself a newbie. It seems like making the "support" forum into a newbies section, and the bucket into the veterans section, would imply that "veterans" no longer need support. Some don't, some do. I personally have gone through periods where I didn't feel I needed much support here, and other times, like now, when I'm craving advice and validation from others who've gone through the fundy wringer.
It also occured to me this week that perhaps more moderating is in order. If this is to be a support forum, I believe there need to be parameters of conduct that are enforced. For example, the "Get over it" thread should never have been in the support section. That section should be reserved for those seeking support and for *supportive* behavior and language. Otherwise, what's the point of creating these different sections?
On the Internet Infidels forum of the Secular Web, moderators make a point to delete personal attacks and profanity in an effort to preserve the purpose of the forum, which is respectful intellectual discussion. They also move off-topic discussions to appropriate sections to preserve the integrity of those sections and topics. This makes the forum a pleasant place to discuss philosophical and religious issues.
Likewise, I think that the Walkaway support forum should be preserved as it is, but with more active moderation that seeks to delete personal attacks of any kind and moves off-topic threads and posts into other forums -- especially posts that interrupt threads and derail the support a walkaway member is seeking. Allowing personal attacks in a support forum is, in my mind, unconscionable. I personally think that personal attacks should not be allowed anywhere on the forum and should be treated the same as proselytizing, with warnings and deletion of posts if necessary. Those who feel they don't need support, and do not desire to provide support to other members, should stay out of that forum. I also think that the reasons the Lion's Den and Bucket are not more active is because, like ex-missionary said, our main commonality is our former fundamentalism -- but also because discussions that belong in those forums are too often placed in the Support Forum and left there.
With that said, I don't mean to point the finger at the moderators here. I am deeply grateful for this forum and those who have committed themselves to its continued existence. St. Thomas, and the moderators, thank you. I appreciate that you've tried to interfere in the discussions here as little as possible and respect members' maturity and ability to moderate themselves. But I think more intervention is necessary to maintain this as a support forum. I certainly recognize that you have your own lives to tend to and that moderation can require a great deal of time and attention. Perhaps St. Thomas would like to extend the moderation role to a few others around here who have the time, willingness, and experience to help out. This might take some of the pressure off the current moderators and allow more flexibility and taking of turns.
Just suggestions. Thanks for asking!
Edit: One more thing to add, in light of Tom's post... I agree that the name "The Bucket" is a bit off-putting. It sounds like a place to throw left-overs or random junk. As Tom suggested, a re-naming might be helpful.
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tom11112002
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6# |
Rank:none
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Posts:113
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08/11/2001
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 7:13 AM)
I must say how fortunate we have someone like you to head up this board. Time and again you seem to really keep your head about you. Thank you for all your work on this site.
Sorry to hear about the loss of your freind's daughter. A sad event of life that come to some people. I suppose we all have our fair share, but some more than others.
Good thoughts you have here Thomas. I place myself now firmly in the veterans club. I have been served well by the support of this site and as the board has spiraled somewhat off the core purpose I too have drifted on to other areas of the web and of life. But I do drop in now and then and want to offer support to those who are new to the idea of leaving "the faith". Having begun to come to thier senses as it were.
Personally, I would like an area that I feel I could read current posts and have my own posts read on a more timely basis. One of the reasons I go to the main support forum is because this is where the activity is. I have tried other boards and end up waiting for days for a response. I tire of waiting and move on. But here things fly most of the time. Hip hip hooray!
If this site becomes just a fundy bashing site, and easy and sometimes fun thing to do, it can drive others away that would otherwise stay here and offer insightful comment.
I have seen this board evolve into a new a better board from time to time and it appears that it will do this once again. I think this may a be a regular occurance, so be prepared. You have touched on a great need in our society and this is just the begining.
Best wishes as you work toward future changes to this board. I had no idea that you wanted the bucket to be like you said here. "The Bucket" makes me think of a place to spout mindless drivel. A different name might be more appropriate. I really don't have a suggestion for a name but it would have to encompass the idea of a place for people who have walked away and are established in their decision. A place where such people regularly visit and post and support one another in thier continued growth as individuals.
-Tom
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Oh oh, you almost got me to say the "N" word. Nacho!
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Dok
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7# |
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Posts:584
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06/28/2001
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 8:08 AM)
There is no way to cater to everyone here. Too diverse is the need and perspectives of the group.
That is my opinion anymore.
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Every time you lay off an American worker you also lay off an American consumer.
When you export jobs you also export the ability to pay for goods manufactured for the American market.
Let's not vote for Bush again this year.
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katseye
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8# |
Rank:none
Score:0
Posts:159
From:
Registered:
10/04/2002
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 8:47 AM)
Reply to : St. Thomas
The details are not pertinent to our discussion, but suffice it to say that I was taking a mental vacation that kind of started when the daughter of a good friend of mine died in an auto accident.The death of someone near you has a non to subtle way of causing one to re-evaluate one? own priorities and existence.
My Dear St. Thomas, I'm sorry to hear about your friend's daughter, and I'm glad you took the time you needed (or at least some of it) to re-evaluate the important things in your life. And thanks for returning to the forum to address this latest issue, which I must admit induced me to shift the forum to a different place in my mind. I had thought of this forum as a place where people in a vulnerable time in their lives related to leaving fundamentalism could reveal that vulnerability and get support. I'm re-evaluating that thinking, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Maybe there are some things one should not expect to be able to reveal in a public place, no matter how well-intended the people there are. There still is a moderate level of support people are capable of giving here, and that has continued to be the case, barring a few fairly isolated bouts of callousness and self-absorption. In general, I still think this forum is a tremendous gift to the community, because people who have been through similar situations have a particular ability to relate to each other, and this kind of support is crucial to a healing process. And I've been impressed with the number of people here who are deeply sensitive to other people's issues and offer astute and sensitive advice. I learn a lot by simply following the threads; I don't even need to participate in the exchanges myself. A few of the people who have gone a long way along the healing process aren't interested in supporting others who are not so far along, and I understand that, but I don't think it ever gives them reason to be caustic or critical of the people who are asking for support. It seems like there are three categories of reasons people participate in this forum: to get support, to give support, or to relate to people we've connected with while interacting for the first two reasons. Oh wait. There's another category. It seems that some people can't resist casting aspersions on people who aren't in the same spot as they are at the time. I'd rather the fourth category didn't exist, but people being what they are, it's bound to show up. I'd say in general what I see happening is a majority support for the first three categories and an only occasional support for the fourth. So things seem to be going as smoothly as one could expect. Except that every once in a while a person looking for support is the subject of something that in no way could be called support and could even be called an attack, and that's where we could use some work. Maybe we could have a small set of volunteers that would like to take responsibility for attempting to keep the peace in such cases? Putting the burden on a single person would be impossible, but a group of four or five semi-regulars would be good. I guess what I'm asking for is moderators, not so much to sensor what's being said, but to make sure people get supported when it happens. I think some carefully placed PMs would be vital in such cases. What a long-winded reply! I can tell this issue matters to me. I value this forum immensely, and I would like to see it achieve an even greater greatness than it already enjoys today. Thanks again St. Thomas. kat
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nightsky
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9# |
Rank:none
Score:0
Posts:78
From:
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12/22/2002
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 9:19 AM)
Hi
I just want to say that though I am a newbie, I have been treated respectfully, by other newbies and veterans alike. I got a lot of helpful responses on a recent post.
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oldfart48
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10# |
From:
Registered:
06/07/2003
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(Date Posted:07/21/2003 4:55 PM)
I post on a limited number of boards, and think that this discussion is a necessary piece of "housekeeping" that needs to be done on any board every six to twelve months. There is a tendency for all discussion to gravitate toward one forum. A few thoughts:
1. The support forum where newbies show up is the only one that really needs any close moderation. The others will mostly police themselves with peer response.
2. Moderators should not be reluctant to shift strings to a more appropriate forum, especially when the string gets long and the subject changes, or a legitimate robust debate emerges!
3. The analogy to 12 step programs is on-point. We all have had bad experiences, and life deals us shattering surprises. I would never suggest that someone has "outgrown" any support group that has worked for them. The period of intense involvement may pass (and that is natural), but I think that "I'm healed; I'm signing off" attitudes are an error caused by a temporary euphoria. I try to maintain "maintenance level" contact with all support systems that have helped me.
4. Once upon a time, people who were far apart maintained family and friendships by snail mail. Those letters became cherished possessions. Just because e-mail and boards are easier doesn't mean that we can't continue useful relationships. Do you save to a folder the posts | | |
