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Drummond
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31# |
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(Date Posted:07/25/2003 11:54:26)
Hey Jared! Sorry to hear about your loss. I don't know what to say.
I also realized that I owe you a tape of the radio show from months ago. As a bonus for my tardiness, I'll send a couple of my other recent shows, which were very lively!
I don't have any real answers about the forum. Laura has problems that none of us is qualified to deal with. I'm still trying to figure out how to respond to a litany of e-mails she sent me while I was away last week. I don't want to say the wrong thing, but I don't want to lie to her about what I thought about her stunt last week.
And the problem is, my own cup is pretty full lately, which is why I haven't been online much.
I'll try to put some thought into this, but if you wanted to create a new forum category, you might consider a politics forum separate from more directly religious issues. I keep resolving to stop making posts about politics, but then people keep responding to them, while others opt out completely. There's an interest by maybe a third of the forum to discuss political issues, and I'm worried that we sometimes crowd the rest out. However, I think it's important to discuss politics because regardless of our political affiliations, there is a commonality we share as ex-fundamentalists that make political discussions interesting. Most of us are less likely to tow a particular line that applies to all issues, and we have some very interesting "hybrid" thoughts here. And for the most part, the political discussions have been very civil, except maybe one thread on the war (and Laura's flag, but that wasn't really a political discussion per se).
Another possibility you might consider for a forum is a discussion about positive post-fundy philosophy, ie. instead of slamming what we don't believe, we discuss what positive philosophies and inspirations we've found as an alternative.
Lastly, I do feel that theist and other non-materialist ex-fundies get hit with a lot of negative "triggered" comments. Maybe a special forum for post-fundy theists or other non-materialists to discuss post-fundy spiritualism. I'm concerned that we've driven some religious ex-fundies off the board.
To make room for any of these, you could merge the Bucket and the Humor forums. There's a lot of overlap there anyway. There are a couple of other forums that don't get much traffic that might be better used for more focused discussion categories.
In the meantime, I'll try to check the site at least once a day, even if I don't have time to post.
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From American Splendor
Student to Harvey Pekar: "It"s hard enough trying to convince people that socialism is a good thing without basing your argument on some abstract theory of human nature. Plato tried and failed. Fourier tried and failed. Marx tried and failed. Sartre tried and failed."
Harvey Pekar: "Well maybe I c"n learn from their mistakes."
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nologoboy
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32# |
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(Date Posted:07/25/2003 16:10:22)
Reply to : Drummond
I keep resolving to stop making posts about politics, but then people keep responding to them, while others opt out completely.?There's an interest by maybe a third of the forum to discuss political issues, and I'm worried that we sometimes crowd the rest out.?However, I think it's important to discuss politics because regardless of our political affiliations, there is a commonality we share as ex-fundamentalists that make political discussions interesting.?Most of us are less likely to tow a particular line that applies to all issues, and we have some very interesting "hybrid" thoughts here.?And for the most part, the political discussions have been very civil, except maybe one thread on the war (and Laura's flag, but that wasn't really a political discussion per se).
to give a little more history than you may be aware of, i used to post quite a lot of anti-bush material before you arrived here. i was still caught up in the black and white of arguments at that stage so i came across more agressively, probably smug. i read some of those old posts back recently and am glad to say i have grown up a little. there may be a residual resentment towards those kinds of posts from certain members because of past arguments. maybe not? i hope not. thought it was worthwhile mentioning. of late, i have been 'opting out' of most political debate for a few reasons. first of all, i don't want to repeat discussions tha ti have had previously so i stand back and let new arrivals hammer it out. if i see a window for tossing around new ideas of my own, i will make the effort to post. secondly, you post articles from similar sources (alternet etc) to what i read anyway, so why bother chiming in with "yeah, i read that too"? this is especially the case when i consider that there are a number of people who haven't had the chance to go through the motions of a 'from scratch' debate - a thirdly, when Hawk used that amerinazi flag (i keeled over laughing...flags, shmags...analyse the sentiment instead of the petty action sort of thing) and then decided it was a good reason to lay off the wartalk (it obviously distresses people and raises emotions). i have no intention of raising the ire of fellow members. if i could shield their eyes from that sort of provocative posturing, i would. so why is politics relevant to this board? well, for starters, the most powerful leader in the world is a fundamentalist christian. to add to the interest of that fact, the world is in a time of conflict and experiencing the kind of problems that precipitate global conflict. What a time to have a Zionist in the big chair. as ex-fundies, we have made some kind of commitment to the idea that questions are better answered with GOD removed from the equation. i think that is one aspect of the debate that evokes such a strong response in us - the feeling that god is being used to justify acts of violence and to keep the fire of hate burning in the hearts and minds of whole populations. conflicts are historically easier to maintain if god is used as an emotional carrot. the separation of church and state is an ongoing argument that is at the height of it's volatility, and the USA is the centre of this debate. Bush-basing, fundy-bashing. same thing really (to me, anyway). finding connections between the insular, inward-looking facets of faith and that of political fanaticism/nationalistic sentiment (US vs them, ME vs it) is helpful for identifying that common propensity in human thinking to place rigid boundaries on ideological frameworks in society. that, to me, poses an array of fascinating philosophical questions that i feel compelled to explore. geez, have i said enough already? 
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"In the end we will conserve only what we love; we will love only what we understand; and we will understand only what we have been taught." -Baba Dioum
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paginity2
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33# |
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(Date Posted:07/26/2003 00:10:39)
Reply to : nologoboy
when Hawk used that amerinazi flag (i keeled over laughing...flags, shmags...analyse the sentiment instead of the petty action sort of thing)
Ditto! I also agreed with her wholeheartedly. Ahh leftist me. Due to the polarization of political viewpoints, maybe a separate political forum is called for. Maybe a Lion? Den with subdivisions? Lion's Den/ Politics---Religion
I've been mulling things over and I think I should have stepped in and stopped the conflict we had between Ladyhawk and Dok. My attitude toward Ladyhawk was to let her get over it at her own speed instead of giving her a shove like Dok did.
Yeah, well, maybe vet posters should have said Hey, Dok! Lay off! or LH, you might need a support group in RT. And it still could have happened. Don't take too much responsibility, you're the moderator not babysitter. Like I said, two adults. You do a very good job and humans are all wacky and unpredictable anyway.
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Fermez ta bouche et mangez tes fritures de liberté.
"Unless we each conform,
Unless we obey orders,
Unless we follow our leaders blindly;
There is no possible way we can remain free."
Major Frank Burns
"People are like glass windows. They sparkle and shine when the sun is out, but when the darkness sets in, their true beauty is revealed only if there is light from within."
-Elisabeth Kübler-Ross
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Blue_Fox
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34# |
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04/22/2002
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(Date Posted:07/26/2003 01:11:18)
Drummond wrote:
I'll try to put some thought into this, but if you wanted to create a new forum category, you might consider a politics forum separate from more directly religious issues. I keep resolving to stop making posts about politics, but then people keep responding to them, while others opt out completely. There's an interest by maybe a third of the forum to discuss political issues, and I'm worried that we sometimes crowd the rest out. However, I think it's important to discuss politics because regardless of our political affiliations, there is a commonality we share as ex-fundamentalists that make political discussions interesting. Most of us are less likely to tow a particular line that applies to all issues, and we have some very interesting "hybrid" thoughts here. And for the most part, the political discussions have been very civil, except maybe one thread on the war (and Laura's flag, but that wasn't really a political discussion per se).
Another possibility you might consider for a forum is a discussion about positive post-fundy philosophy, ie. instead of slamming what we don't believe, we discuss what positive philosophies and inspirations we've found as an alternative.
Lastly, I do feel that theist and other non-materialist ex-fundies get hit with a lot of negative "triggered" comments. Maybe a special forum for post-fundy theists or other non-materialists to discuss post-fundy spiritualism. I'm concerned that we've driven some religious ex-fundies off the board.
To make room for any of these, you could merge the Bucket and the Humor forums. There's a lot of overlap there anyway. There are a couple of other forums that don't get much traffic that might be better used for more focused discussion categories.
I agree!
I think a politics and a spirituality forum would be great additions, with a couple other forums being consolidated. Those uninterested in political debate can stay out of that particular forum, and those interested in politics can continue to post and discuss without worry that they may be monopolizing the general forum. Likewise for a forum focused on post-fundy spirituality. I don't see anything wrong with adding or subtracting sub-forums now and then. As the members and nature of the board evolves, the structure of it should evolve as necessary.
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oldfart48
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35# |
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06/07/2003
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(Date Posted:07/27/2003 00:09:36)
Reply to : Blue_Fox
Drummond wrote:I'll try to put some thought into this, but if you wanted to create a new forum category, you might consider a politics forum separate from more directly religious issues. I keep resolving to stop making posts about politics, but then people keep responding to them, while others opt out completely. There's an interest by maybe a third of the forum to discuss political issues, and I'm worried that we sometimes crowd the rest out. However, I think it's important to discuss politics because regardless of our political affiliations, there is a commonality we share as ex-fundamentalists that make political discussions interesting. Most of us are less likely to tow a particular line that applies to all issues, and we have some very interesting "hybrid" thoughts here. And for the most part,
I'm a little uncomfortable about a "positive" forum. It might make more sense to have an "Unrestricted rant" forum. People who have come through the process and have a positive outlook can hold there own in any reasonable debate,no matter how robust. Vulnerable people may need protection and support, but the thoughtful "liberal" Christian, Eastern religion, and atheist/deist community can hold their own.
A second comment: as the need to vent wears off, the need to deal with family, friends, and associates still caught up in a totalitarian religious thought system increases. People start dealing with parents and siblings still "in the faith" and questions of how to raise their children. At this point, I think that everyone but the most nihilistic starts looking for positive values and coping techniques. It might even be a good enough reason for some of the old timers to hang around!
Jamie
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"The high places are within."
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Dok
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36# |
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06/28/2001
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(Date Posted:07/28/2003 02:57:15)
It would be good to have a closed thread maybe of links and such (correct me if there already is) Answers to FAQs, links to articles, Mods can post only so the confusing array of repetitive links and links to substandard crap info, can be culled from the mass of info available. I am of the mind that there are some good, subtle tweaks that could go a long way here, but overall we have what we need to serve people crossing the bridge from religious dogma to what ever is on the other side of the bridge for them.
I will be so bold as to say, the complete forum-wide moratorium against Christ babble and moderate preachiness is a mistake. It is insular and perpetuates fundamentalist behavior. And it shows that we cannot handle cross examination, so how can we be so sure that we are ok in walking away from the dogma if we can? handle a mild online peppering of religiospeek? It is also another reason why things got so boring, no on topic conflict/discussion to chew on and execise on. Why else have so many in the past sought this conflict elsewhere since the prohibition was enfoced? Support forum should remain off limits to this, but give the preachy folks a room to plead their case. It is good exercise and very informative/educational to pick it apart, and those forays here in the past were where this place was at its most helpful, when the 2 opposing views mixed it up. It has stagnated since. And if it is too much for newbies they should not go read it. Many Jesus freak boreds extend a room for athiests and skeptics to pitch their worldview. We should do likewise. Otherwise we show we are too weak to defend our perogative. Impotence... Who knows, we may change a few minds.
Lastly
There needs to be a set approach to completely oversensitive people who need more than we can give them and dominate the whole climate of the forum. This would be beneficial so that the mods will not face endless overwhelming streams of hystrionic pleas to ban all that offends. As well as other forum members dont end up in the predicament of getting fucking fed up and poking a jab at these people, and end up feeling and looking like a complete dick because they refuse to give someone extra special red carpet kid glove treatment after two years of doing so to no benefit.
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Every time you lay off an American worker you also lay off an American consumer.
When you export jobs you also export the ability to pay for goods manufactured for the American market.
Let's not vote for Bush again this year.
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oldfart48
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37# |
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(Date Posted:07/28/2003 04:37:10)
People vote through posting volume. Why not combine the Books, Humor, and Gallery forums?
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"The high places are within."
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St. Thomas
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38# |
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(Date Posted:07/28/2003 14:08:48)
Gentle Members (once again),
We are receiving many good observations and thoughts on the subject of reorganizing, re-zoning, or otherwise ?ixing?this board to make it a better place ?OR at least to clarify our current position and future direction.
I think one of the biggest points to take away from the discussion so far is that this board is EVOLVING and has changed and grown and matured just as its original members have.
When I first took over this board back in 2001, not only was it a somewhat disorganized, random rabble, but also most of the members were relatively fresh from their fundy lives ?or even still in them to some extent. The feelings and thoughts expressed were raw, hurting, and angry. Not to say that many such feelings are no longer expressed on this board (because they still are), but there now exists a core of WA members who have been through the fire, come out on the other side, and are ready to move on ?or at least have no interest in talking about their fundy pain with the passion they once had. The fundy experience is (thankfully) becoming a memory to deal with and not an obstacle to overcome.
This shows that healing is possible and that this board has helped to (I think anyway) a significant degree in allowing fundy walk aways to find support when little was available anywhere else.
That some who have survived through this walking away experience and wish to move on and away from the board is natural. But, many (I daresay most) veteran WA members have obviously found a support community ?a community of like-minded friends ?SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> they do not wish to leave. Maybe they don? feel the need to hang out here all the time like they did when they were new to walking away (then again, maybe there are some healed addicts to this board - I like to think of them as groupies  ). But, the friendships and bonds they have formed are ones they wish to continue. Indeed. So, be it. I? say that means that this place is working.
The problem, as pointed out within this discussion, is that we now have to decide how best to both the bonded veterans and the incoming newbies who still need the same kind of compassionate support, advise, and direction that overwhelmed this board in the ?ld days.?
I admit I? still trying to figure out how best to do this. As I noted in an earlier post, I?l be enacting some changes by phases and see how they go. First, I am gathering the names and email addresses of any of those who wish to volunteer for moderation duty. Increasing the benign policing of this place is priority one. I mentioned earlier that I was also considering a ?eterans Forum?and a ?ewbies Forum.?SPAN style="mso-spacerun: yes"> So far, although the comments have been mixed (both for and against) on this idea, the majority appears to favor not separating veterans and newbies per se. I agree with this. But, I do think that a recombination of some of the existing forums is in order to allow at least one forum for support, compassion, and advice on walking away, and at least one forum for discussion on less ?aw and desperate?topics (for want of a better term). Of course there should always be room somewhere for completely off (WA) topic discussion ?either humorous or serious.
One very big solution to making this a better community is something I have wanted for a very long time ?our own web site. As some of you may know, I have been trying to get a response from the original owners of the original Walk Away web site (IFAS: Institute for First Amendment Studies) for the past two years. I have not received a response from them since they first re-linked their web page to our board (after the old discussion board died). Now, both the original Walk Away web site and the main IFAS site is gone. I can find no information on this. ( If anyone has any ?please share.) Currently this board is all that is left of the whole Walk Away thing. We are it.
So, I say, let? make it happen. I will be making a separate post on plans to create and maintain our own web site. In the meantime, please add any comments, suggestions, or advice on this topic. I think this board ?this community - has a bright future. But, we need both input and hands on help. Please give one or both. I?l need names (WA IDs and real names) as well as emails of those who wish to take an active part in helping out around here. Operators are standing by?
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--St. Thomas
Administrator, Walk Away Board
"If your beliefs are written in stone, your mind is made of rock."
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zarathustra
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39# |
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