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Gentle Walk Awayers,I have been gone for almost three months from the board.The details are not pertinent to our discussion, but suffice it to say that I was taking a mental vacation that kind of started when the daughter of a good friend of mine died in an auto accident.The death of someone near you has a non to subtle way of causing one to re-evaluate one? own priorities and existence.Anyway, that was the catalyst, the result being internet downtime for about three months.I even let my email back up.But, at the risk of throwing something heavy into the fray and then abruptly changing gears - this is a topic that can be

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I like the idea of having a newbie section and a veteran section.  It's great that the veterans are moving on to new places in their lives, but lots of the new comers are still struggling with various issues.

I like the idea of having a Veterans and  Newbie section.  A lot of the newcomers are still goign through stuff that the veterans might be over.

I agree with Ex-missionary.  I've been on the forum for more than a year, but I'm just now telling family and friends about my deconversion.  I just posted a new topic in the Support Forum asking for advice about telling my mother.  It seemed to fit into that forum -- support was exactly what I needed.  Yet I don't consider myself a newbie.  It seems like making the "support" forum into a newbies section, and the bucket into the veterans section, would imply that "veterans" no longer need support.  Some don't, some do.  I personally have gone through periods where I didn't feel I needed much support here, and other times, like now, when I'm craving advice and validation from others who've gone through the fundy wringer.

It also occured to me this week that perhaps more moderating is in order.  If this is to be a support forum, I believe there need to be parameters of conduct that are enforced.  For example, the "Get over it" thread should never have been in the support section.  That section should be reserved for those seeking support and for *supportive* behavior and language.   Otherwise, what's the point of creating these different sections?

On the Internet Infidels forum of the Secular Web, moderators make a point to delete personal attacks and profanity in an effort to preserve the purpose of the forum, which is respectful intellectual discussion.  They also move off-topic discussions to appropriate sections to preserve the integrity of those sections and topics.  This makes the forum a pleasant place to discuss philosophical and religious issues. 

Likewise, I think that the Walkaway support forum should be preserved as it is, but with more active moderation that seeks to delete personal attacks of any kind and moves off-topic threads and posts into other forums -- especially posts that interrupt threads and derail the support a walkaway member is seeking.  Allowing personal attacks in a support forum is, in my mind, unconscionable.  I personally think that personal attacks should not be allowed anywhere on the forum and should be treated the same as proselytizing, with warnings and deletion of posts if necessary.  Those who feel they don't need support, and do not desire to provide support to other members, should stay out of that forum.  I also think that the reasons the Lion's Den and Bucket are not more active is because, like ex-missionary said, our main commonality is our former fundamentalism -- but also because discussions that belong in those forums are too often placed in the Support Forum and left there.

With that said, I don't mean to point the finger at the moderators here.  I am deeply grateful for this forum and those who have committed themselves to its continued existence.  St. Thomas, and the moderators, thank you.  I appreciate that you've tried to interfere in the discussions here as little as possible and respect members' maturity and ability to moderate themselves.  But I think more intervention is necessary to maintain this as a support forum.  I certainly recognize that you have your own lives to tend to and that moderation can require a great deal of time and attention.  Perhaps St. Thomas would like to extend the moderation role to a few others around here who have the time, willingness, and experience to help out.  This might take some of the pressure off the current moderators and allow more flexibility and taking of turns.

Just suggestions.  Thanks for asking!

Edit:  One more thing to add, in light of Tom's post...  I agree that the name "The Bucket" is a bit off-putting.  It sounds like a place to throw left-overs or random junk.  As Tom suggested, a re-naming might be helpful. 

I must say how fortunate we have someone like you to head up this board.   Time and again you seem to really keep your head about you.  Thank you for all your work on this site.

Sorry to hear about the loss of your freind's daughter.  A sad event of life that come to some people.  I suppose we all have our fair share, but some more than others.

Good thoughts you have here Thomas.  I place myself now firmly in the veterans club.  I have been served well by the support of this site and as the board has spiraled somewhat off the core purpose I too have drifted on to other areas of the web and of life.  But I do drop in now and then and want to offer support to those who are new to the idea of leaving "the faith".  Having begun to come to thier senses as it were.

Personally, I would like an area that I feel I could read current posts and have my own posts read on a more timely basis.  One of the reasons I go to the main support forum is because this is where the activity is.  I have tried other boards and end up waiting for days for a response.  I tire of waiting and move on.  But here things fly most of the time.  Hip hip hooray!

If this site becomes just a fundy bashing site, and easy and sometimes fun thing to do,   it can drive others away that would otherwise stay here and offer insightful comment.

I have seen this board evolve into a new a better board from time to time and it appears that it will do this once again.  I think this may a be a regular occurance, so be prepared.  You have touched on a great need in our society and this is just the begining. 

Best wishes as you work toward future changes to this board.  I had no idea that you wanted the bucket to be like you said here.  "The Bucket" makes me think of a place to spout mindless drivel.  A different name might be more appropriate.  I really don't have a suggestion for a name but it would have to encompass the idea of a place for people who have walked away and are established in their decision.  A place where such people regularly visit and post and support one another in thier continued growth as individuals.

-Tom

There is no way to cater to everyone here.  Too diverse is the need and perspectives of the group.

That is my opinion anymore.

Hi

I just want to say that though I am a newbie, I have been treated respectfully, by other newbies and veterans alike.  I got a lot of helpful responses on a recent post.

I post on a limited number of boards, and think that this discussion is a necessary piece of "housekeeping" that needs to be done on any board every six to twelve months.  There is a tendency for all discussion to gravitate toward one forum.  A few thoughts:

1.  The support forum where newbies show up is the only one that really needs any close moderation.  The others will mostly police themselves with peer response.

2.  Moderators should not be reluctant to shift strings to a more appropriate forum, especially when the string gets long and the subject changes, or a legitimate robust debate emerges!

3.  The analogy to 12 step programs is on-point.  We all have had bad experiences, and life deals us shattering surprises.  I would never suggest that someone has "outgrown" any support group that has worked for them.  The period of intense involvement may pass (and that is natural), but I think that "I'm healed; I'm signing off" attitudes are an error caused by a temporary euphoria.  I try to maintain "maintenance level" contact with all support systems that have helped me.

4.  Once upon a time, people who were far apart maintained family and friendships by snail mail.  Those letters became cherished possessions.  Just because e-mail and boards are easier doesn't mean that we can't continue useful relationships. Do you save to a folder the posts that are most meaningful to you?

5.  While experience with a control-based manipulative religious organization may be the common point, it is not the only common point.  As another poster suggested, that experience affected our political values.  I suggest that it also has something to do with how we parent and relate to family and other people.  Further, such systems try to dominate all aspects of life, squeezing out time for the simple pleasures and ordinary activities of life.  There are a host of interests we can explore together in acclimating to the "world on the other side".    For the intellectually inclined there can be book discussions; one board has a hilarious cartoon collection.  I'm not above swapping recipes and telling boy Scout stories.

6.  Finally, try to read and respond to the introductions section.  I'm an old fart, so ignore my post, but this should be the point where you learn a little about newbies and start the support process.

<old fart steps off of soap box and falls flat on his face.  Picks himself up and dusts off his chic 60's attire>

Peace, y'all.

Jamie

I don't think we need a newbie forum because we have both the Support Forum and Personal Introductions.

We don't need a Veteran's forum because we have both The Lion's Den and The Bucket.

I think that the definitions of these forums should just be reinforced.

I agree with Eric.  All we need is already there.  Just some tweaking is all that really is needed, a complete overhaul is too much.

We have the technology.  with some refinements we can make it faster, stronger....

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I don't think we need a newbie forum because we have both the Support Forum and Personal Introductions.We don't need a Veteran's forum because we have both The Lion's Den and The Bucket.I think that the definitions of these forums should just be reinforced.

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ditto...what he said. 

Would have to agree with the above. Use that which we already have and fine tune if need be.

I think we are more than capable of monitoring ourselves, hey? We have run into these problems before.

The moderators do have a life, ya know? Not to have to babysit us 24/7!!!!

As I have said time upon time, Thomas has offered us a very unique forum with very little censorship.

We can handle/sort this out by THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE and a little EMPATHY?

Remind selfs of what it was like when that which you once believed was coming all undone.....the guilt, fear and host of other emotions that ran the guantlet.

Stumpy

I agree with Erik and Rowan...we already have the forums we need, it just needs enforcement. Perhaps we need more mods, or a mod for each forum? Or perhaps we can all act like adults and police ourselves (that may be asking too much from some of us ). I like the forum as it is and see no reason to have a "veterans rrom". As someone else said, we come here because the common thread is walking away. Remove that and what do we have? The emotional ties that bind, certainly, but ineffable cords at best. The purpose of the forum is what beought us and keeps us here.

  My 2 cents.

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I don't think we need a newbie forum because we have both the Support Forum and Personal Introductions.We don't need a Veteran's forum because we have both The Lion's Den and The Bucket.I think that the definitions of these forums should just be reinforced.

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I don't think we need drastic changes either, but certainly something HAS to change.

Recently we had a new member turn up, raw and bleeding from his encounter with fundyism, suicidal and in need of help and support. The diatribe _in_the_support_forum_ may have driven him away from here for good. 

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The last thing we should be doing is attacking each other. I'm signing off from this board for now because I've got enough crap on my plate without reading this stuff.

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If we can't support people like this, we've lost the bloody plot completely, haven't we?

Personally, I think the support forum should be strictly for support. Flaming or attacking should be considered the same as prosletysing - warning then banning.

Maybe there is a good case for "moving on" and maybe even "tough love" occasionally, but not in the support forum where the freshly wounded lay.

Opinions are like arseholes, everyone has one. This is mine. (opinion that is).

Cheers,

Mark

Plus ca change, plus c-est la meme chose.

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Gentle Members of Walk Away,
 

You have seen the responses thus far to some ideas I put forward to correct the current somewhat erratic course of our board.  I encourage anyone else who has additional ideas or thoughts to submit them.   But, I would like to enact something soon.  It appears by my reckoning that there is a rough even split between those who desire a significant change (involving name changes of some forums at least) and those who want no change except more responsible posting and maybe some additional moderator intervention.

I feel that some combination of all the above is in order.  I'll do it in phases and see how it goes.  My time available at the moment is restricted, so slow going at first will have to be the order of the day.

PHASE I:  First, I would like to increase the moderator presence on this board. Most of the problems encountered recently could have been avoided ?or at least toned down ?with some more moderator intervention.  I was not around, and I suspect my other two mods were otherwise engaged elsewhere as well.  With more mods around here, perhaps we can increase the coverage, reduce the flames, and increase the support.

I?l be giving out details later.  For now I will be contacting some members of this board to be mods.  If you feel that you would like to become a moderator for this board AND you think you have a level, cool head, tons of patience with people, an acute sense of justice, and at least a significant amount of available time (there is never enough), then please contact me by PM or email through this board.  Or you can just respond to this post.  I?l need your email contact information.

I already have received offers of mod duty from some members who fit the characteristics.  Once I have some additional moderators to beef up the oversight of the board, and to render more assistance to yours truly, I?l put PHASE II into action.  More details to come on this.  For now - operators are standing by.

Thanks 

Voltaire, your honesty is refreshing.  Please do feel free to tell us about how you're really feeling.  At least, I know I'd like to hear it.  I've come to respect you a great deal since first arriving at Walk Away.

Blue

Reply to : Voltaire

I think you wear two hats as a moderator.  One is kindergarten cop, and that takes a "judicial disposition".  You have to rein in the same out-of-bounds behavior over and over.  Of course it's repetitive; but it's anecessary function.  Maybe the rest of us don't express appreciation for this largely thankless function enough, and perhaps we should have more input directly to the moderators by PM if we see things spinning out of control.  After a while, I think all moderators come to question their judgment ("Have I become too disinterested?  Am I being overbearing?") and veteran poster "heads up" would help. 

The second hat is poster.  If you don't stay interested in the content to some degree (granted rants are part of the diengagement process and get old after the first few hundred; but you can skim over these), you eventually encounter burnout.  Put down the gavel from time to time, get down in the well of the house, sling some hash, or use the bully pupit! 

Lastly, downtime helps.  More moderators, less burden to each. 

Hope some of this helps.

Jamie

I happen to agree with Voltaire when he says ". . .I just feel tired of the issues and find it difficult to really care." It has been very rare over the last several months to see me post in a topic that actually has to do with the theme of this board: Walking Away.  Most of my posting has been in the Bucket or Humor Therapy Room.  I made a lot of mistakes early in life, the most obvious is a flawed worldview.  That is why I came here.  At first, I poured my heart out in long, rambling posts, because I was so frustrated and confused.  But as time went on, I put the pieces back together.  And while the scars will always last, I find that now they are more of a friendly reminder.  I am done dwelling on the past, and I really have no desire and motivation to discuss it at this time.

I find that I stick around now mostly because there are so many familiar people here.  Of any message board I have ever been to, this one has been the most personal, the most close, and the most welcoming.  These boards served a vital role in my walking away, and though I am healed now, I just don't feel like leaving.  Perhaps as time goes on, I will post more as a "supporter", but for the time being, I just need a good break.

As for the first post, I think the boards should be left as they are with only minor changes.  I always assumed that Veterans could post in any forum, as long as their topic related to that forum.  One thing I have always thought is that maybe "The Bucket" should be changed to "General Discussion".  When you say "The Bucket", it almost sounds comical, like forum content shouldn't be too serious.  This especially seems the case when you say "Feel free to drop something in the bucket".  Perhaps call it "General Discussion", and in the caption, encourage all debate, news issues, and discussion not related to fundamentalism.  Because now, I notice almost all of this type of discussion takes place in Lions Den, when that forum is in the "Discussions related to Walking Away from Fundamentalism" category.

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If through my inaction and lack of compassion Walk Away has become a place of wounding instead of healing, then I'm not being very effective.

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Comrade, Voltaire,
Please dont'  beat yourself over the head.  You have certainly not contributed one bit to WA becaming a place of wounding.  On the contrary, I have seen countless occasions where you intervened with perfect timing and necessity (I'm thinking recently of a certain fundy in the "Personal Intro" forum that you had to ban after she hijacked a thread).    I think you have great mod skills (hey buddy, I could see that early on - that's why I asked you to be a mod).   

Take a well deserved brake if you must, friend Voltaire.  But, please don't leave because you think you failed.  You did not.  I think that by having some addional mod help around here, the three of us current mods (you, me, and Drummond) will have a lot less pressure us.  I know I'm looking forward to less pressure.   I'm coming to see that a regular "policing presence" is necessary if only in the background to head off little problems before they become big problems. 

So, thank you, Voltaire for your mod help so far.  We can all only get better - and taking a break now and then is a good way to make that happen.