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Drummond
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RE:Ex fundies contaminate
(Date Posted:07/30/2008 04:20:10)
I'm confused. Are they influencing the churches towards fundamentalism or away from religiosity?
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From American Splendor
Student to Harvey Pekar: "It"s hard enough trying to convince people that socialism is a good thing without basing your argument on some abstract theory of human nature. Plato tried and failed. Fourier tried and failed. Marx tried and failed. Sartre tried and failed."
Harvey Pekar: "Well maybe I c"n learn from their mistakes."
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snakechic
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RE:Ex fundies contaminate
(Date Posted:08/03/2008 17:53:29)
Depends on what and how you'd like to define fundamentalism. The way I see it, there is a 'fundamentalist' element in most every church - yes influencing towards fundamentalism.
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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Chirpy
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RE:Ex fundies contaminate
(Date Posted:08/11/2008 07:12:54)
I agree with you there. No matter which church I attended or how eclectic it was I seemed to attract the fundy in any church who would come over to me preaching about how women must be 'covered' if if they aren't married and that christians shouldn't be involved in politics. Looking back now it seemed I yearned for that kind of company following an unhealthy relationship with a fundy. It was only when I came to live where I do know and find almost any church full of fundies (must be the sign of the times as well) I began to question fundyism and eventually christianity as a whole.
BTW there is now a reality programme on Channel 4 (UK television) called 'Make me a Christian' in which four church leaders attempt to make over a diverse and some would say extreme group of people from Yorkshire in the hope of make them lead a moral religious life. Let's hope the dark side of christianity is exposed in the programme and few get converted or manage to stay the course when they realise how tough it is. After all christianity is often expressed in a glossy form and new converts told the christian life is fulfilling and easy only to be presented with the hardships later on.
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snakechic
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Reply To Chirpy
(Date Posted:08/12/2008 02:09:53)
Reply to Chirpy (08/11/2008 05:12:54)
BTW there is now a reality programme on Channel 4 (UK television) called 'Make me a Christian' in which four church leaders attempt to make over a diverse and some would say extreme group of people from Yorkshire in the hope of make them lead a moral religious life. Let's hope the dark side of christianity is exposed in the programme and few get converted or manage to stay the course when they realise how tough it is. After all christianity is often expressed in a glossy form and new converts told the christian life is fulfilling and easy only to be presented with the hardships later on.
Oh..I'll look out for it online. I love Ch 4 doco's.
I have a theory that christianity generally....is being largely influenced by what I call "american christianity"..the flamboyant, snake oil revival tent stuff.
The missionaries from the US are good at what they do - making money and spreading their particular 'No doubt about it word'.
Here's a snippet of an Australian made Doco ..called "god on my side" by Andrew Denton.
"If God be for us, who can be against us?" (Romans 8:31)
In a documentary that turns the Western gaze on Christian fundamentalism, Andrew DENTON explores faith and the place it can take true-believers, both personally and politically. He visits the 63rd National Religious Broadcasters Convention in Dallas, Texas and interviews a range of Christians, from the rigidly conservative to the surprisingly liberal.
For more info, go to www.sbs.com.au/movieshow
The entire movie is also available on Dvd or on google movies.
(Message edited by snakechic on 08/12/2008 02:16:12)
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In exchange for obedience, Christianity promises salvation in an afterlife; but in order to elicit obedience through this promise, Christianity must convince people that they need salvation, that there is something to be saved from. Christianity has nothing to offer a happy person living in a natural, intelligible universe. If Christianity is to gain a motivational foothold, it must declare war on earthly pleasure and happiness, and this, historically, has been its precise course of action. In the eyes of Christianity, woman(man) is sinful and helpless in the face of God, and is potential fuel for the flames of hell. Just as Christianity must destroy reason before it can introduce faith, so it must destroy happiness before it can introduce salvation.
-- George H Smith, Atheism: The Case Against God
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logophile
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RE:Ex fundies contaminate
(Date Posted:08/12/2008 10:33:29)
I knew a preacher who made a habit of trying to reform "dead" churches. By dead I mean those he considered to be too liberal or wishy washy. This guy didn't have a church of his own, and he worked a regular day job, but made himself available to fill pulpits when church leaders were away. These churches were mostly some type of mainline Protestant, not purposely lberal or socially progressive, just your everyday community churches that didn't expect everyone to conform to a strict message. In short the congregants their own ideas. Being an area comprised of rural communities and small towns, they usually already had one or two closet fundy/pentie leaning members, and they were the ones that helped get this guy invited. Once he'd get in, he'd get up and preach a hellfire and brimstone message, telling people that those who think they're saved may actually be headed for hell and that they needed to rededicate and be "on fire for God". He talked about the baptism of the holy spirit, praying in tongues, living in "holiness" (no alcohol,secular music, etc) It was all very calculated and he knew what he was doing. He wanted to stir people up. I knew this guy personally, and he loved the drama.
Sometimes, the pastors knew what their congregations were in for, and allowed the revival message. They realized their congregations were old,dying or uninterested and in order to get more warm bodies they'd need to change the message. Other times, the whole thing was a sneack attack.... the pastors had no clue he was going to do something like that and they wouldn't find out about it til after they came back from vacation or wherever. When he spoke to the pastors personally, he'd talk about the love of God and grace, bla blah blah, and then get up and tell the congregation they'd been deprived of the real truth of the gospel and may fry because of it.
The reactions from the congregations were varied. Often, they'd just give him the "what a nutcase" look. Sometimes though, people would get angry, and either walk out or confront him afterwards or complain to their leadership later. Lastly, some people would love it. They'd jump up and get "saved",fall down, pray in tongues, whatever. If people in one church had varying strong reactions, the church would sometimes split because nobody agreed how it was supposed to run anymore. Was it a pentecostal group, a mainline group, what?
Needless to say, travelling preacher man got a bad name after awhile. His reign of bible-thumping terror didn't last long. Once he pissed people off in one small down, word spread to the neighboring places and that was that. He had to keep expanding his radius, and ended up spending more on gas than he got in donations. But he had his fun while he could.
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Chirpy
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RE:Ex fundies contaminate
(Date Posted:08/13/2008 12:16:19)
It often happens that way. Many a mainline church (even Wesleyan Methodist churches) become fundy gradually through visiting evangelical speakers who come for a weekend or even a week. Even the pastor is affected and becomes more fundy. I think that the weekend is usually a success because the congregation particularly the younger single people are bored with the same old routine and are looking for something different and because there are gaps in their requirements. They feel something is missing. In fact what they are looking for can only be found outside the church because a religious life cuts you off from life in a lot of respects; sex, romance, partying, just chilling and being yourself, getting close to nature, sports and festivals - all the things that are denied to young christians and the christian equivalents are poor substitutes.
These visiting speakers excite the young, naive and needy for the while and then disappear. They're put on a pedestal and the admirers wish they could go their churches yet they don't realise charismatic leader such as these don't have good people skills and are quite uncaring.
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